Unpacking Love Island USA Part 2

In part 2 of this episode of The Phoenix Cast, Violence Prevention Educator Cassandra Carmona-Wayman (she/hers/ella) and Survivor Advocates Jenae McCall (they/them) and Marissa Moreno (she/hers) take a deeper look at Love Island through a survivor-centered lens. Their conversation explores the difference between unhealthy behavior and patterns of abuse, the role of gender and cultural expectations in how contestants are judged, and the ways reality-TV production can intensify already vulnerable relationship dynamics. They also discuss victim-blaming, survivor autonomy, the importance of responding to disclosures without judgment, and what meaningful support can look like. Finally, they highlight the advocacy services available through the Phoenix Center at Auraria and why creating safe, empowering spaces for survivors matters.

Content warnings: This episode includes discussions of interpersonal violence such as: intimate partner violence, emotional abuse, manipulation, victim-blaming, sexual violence, trauma, and survivor experiences. It also includes discussion of specific Love Island relationship dynamics and potentially distressing examples of specific Islanders' behaviors. Strong language is also used.

Sources and Further Information:

• Love Island USA — Peacock
• Love Island USA Season 7 — Peacock
• Love Island USA Season 8 — Peacock
• Ullman et al. (2014), “Social Reactions to Sexual Assault Disclosure, Coping, Perceived Control and PTSD Symptoms in Sexual Assault Victims.”
  Full article — PubMed Central
• CDC — Intimate Partner Violence Surveillance Definitions

If you are in crisis and need immediate support, please call our 24/7 interpersonal violence helpline at 303-556-2255.

Request an Appointment with an Advocate at
https://www.thepca.org/online-appointment-request

Request a Violence Prevention Presentation at
https://www.thepca.org/prevention-education

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Transcript

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Unknown Speaker  0:00  
 Hello, listeners. Welcome back to the Phoenix Cast. This is part two of our Unpacking Love Island USA podcast episode. Before we begin, I want to remind folks one more time about the content warnings for this podcast episode. This portion includes discussions of emotional abuse, coercive control, sexual violence, victim blaming, trauma, and survivor experiences. While listening to part two of this podcast episode, if anything comes up for you and you are activated or just need some support, please remember that you can call our 24/7 helpline at 303-556-2255.

Unknown Speaker  1:04  
All right, now let's dive back into this episode.

Unknown Speaker  1:08  
I think that it very very much is manipulative, with that purpose of exploiting these human beings for again, yeah, money, right? For that notoriety, for I don't know. Like, I mean, who knows what the real intentions are of the producers? Because these are also human beings as well. But it's like, man, you're really like mistreating these people that you know. Some, I mean, they come in probably with a lot of trauma from real life experiences, and I I think it's interesting too because I was explaining to someone a little bit about like how Love Island works, and they were in shock that these folks have to share a bedroom, right? It's like was it 12 people, 12 strangers sharing a bedroom. You have to sleep in a bed that same night, the first night of the show, when you are coupled, and you don't always get to choose right who you are coupled with on that first night, and so that is really uncomfortable. That is really hard, and that does make me think again of like you know how KC and and I didn't necessarily choose each other, but they were coupled together, and then that plays into also like maybe she was really uncomfortable. She didn't want to cuddle you. Like I don't understand why you are like upset with someone that you know, like they're choosing that because it might be the best decision for themselves. So I'm wondering if we can kind of dive into that as well.

Unknown Speaker  2:41  
I think for me, something that comes up is like when you go on to Love Island. Obviously, you're sharing parts of yourself with this other person, and it is really vulnerable. But there are things on the show that don't get talked about because you can't. And one of them is like politics, or you know, people really aren't bringing up their trauma because you don't want to voice that to the whole world. But I think that part of it always sat kind of icky with me because it's like you really only know this person in this vacuum. You only know what they are like and what they are putting forward here. And when we talk about that through like a relationship lens and how that is, a lot of people are going to put their best face forward when you first meet, but then once you do get into the nitty gritty of things and past traumas and comfortability boundaries all of these things that's going to look really different on the outside when you leave and whenever you are exposed to okay this is how your family life is okay this is how your job is this is how this is and I think it's always weird you can't talk about certain things on Love Island for viewership purposes because it's like those are really important things to people those are important morals that they have, and it's not stuff that gets voiced, really. I think one of the biggest things that that comes up for me when we think about survivor centric lens in regards to things like Love Island, I think of like the the bad examples, right? And just like Cassandra, I'm a little bit of a new Love Island USA viewer, so like I've only seen season seven and eight, so that's what I'll be speaking to specifically, but I think of two specific couples when we start having this conversation about survivor-centered lens, right?

Unknown Speaker  4:08  
And they're both controversial, so you know whatever you guys are going to have to ride with me here. But I think of Hoda and Jeremiah from season seven, and then I think of Melanie and Sincere from this season, right? And I think of very serious differences in those two dynamics and what we watched happen in those dynamics. I know when I was watching season seven, Marissa and I had so many conversations about Huda, right? Because, like, we're watching some of these things that are like they're really egregious ways to treat another person, right? Like, they are unacceptable ways to treat another person, and we're also watching this like very intense dynamic where it's like people are being lied to, and and more intimacy is being pushed than it should be, and you know clearly this person was not stable to begin with, and that's no no tea no shade, right? Like hell, I don't know that I'd be stable enough to go on Love Island, but clearly the Huda was having some some serious emotional problems, some serious abandonment issues. Right, as a mental health professional, that's all I saw when I was watching, and I think the way people treated  that dynamic versus Melanie and Sincere, right, this season where we watched sincere beat and excuse my language, but an asshole, right? Like straight up, just an asshole to Melanie, and then act like what he was doing was not emotionally abusive, right? To to lie to your partner, to cheat on your partner intentionally, and then to  gaslight them into thinking that that's not what you're doing for your gain is an act of abuse, right? Especially when we have a pattern of behavior where he keeps doing it. Whereas with Jeremiah and Huda, we saw we saw something very different, right? We saw a lot of emotional reaction versus versus a pattern of intentional pain. And I think

Unknown Speaker  5:58  
to kind of put it that way too, I feel like season seven they got a lot of shit from people that that season. I think from start to ending, they did have a lot, and there were a lot of times that people were trying to diagnose Huda and say like, "Oh, she had all of these things, and "Oh, well, no, it's Jeremiah who has this, and he's being the manipulative one. And I think what we all have to remember is these are still people; they are not characters on a TV show. They are human beings. They have their own lives. They have their own traumas. They're gonna respond in certain ways, especially when everything in the villa is so heightened. Where like, yeah, you've been rocking with this person for a week. To them, that may feel like a month, right? And then all of a sudden, you're ripped away from them, which we did see from Huda and Jeremiah whenever Jeremiah got paired with Iris by America,  and how that really made Huda spiral, and I think that's something that we always have to remember is like even as mental health professionals, you have the degree and you know the things. That doesn't mean you know that person and you can diagnose them with X, Y, and Z.

Unknown Speaker  6:54  
Yeah, thank you so much. And so yeah, I just wanted to quickly come in to say for our viewers that we are definitely you know, here just discussing Love Island as a show. We're discussing what we've seen based off of our different professional experiences. You know, we're talking about relationship dynamics that we've noticed and other like cultural norms and aspects that might play into those interactions that we, you know, see might blow up on social media. However, you know we're not trying to diagnose any contestant, so I just want to make that very clear for viewers. Again, like we are, you know, here with a very critical lens on what we've seen from the cast members that participate on the show, and also what we've seen on social media. With yeah, as you mentioned, Marissa, a lot of mental health professionals trying to be part of these conversations for maybe again that fame, that notoriety, and trying to diagnose these folks that you know don't need to be forced into those perspectives, right? So just want to interject real quick, but yeah, Janae, do you have any other thoughts that you want to share about this? Because there's so much to unpack here.

Unknown Speaker  8:00  
Well, I think something that had come up a lot when season seven was happening. I was doing a lot of like prevention education online at the time, and having a lot of conversations with people. And what I was seeing was a lot of very black and white thinking. Right, Huda's an abuser, Jeremiah's an abuser, and there's no in between, and you don't know what you're talking about. And most of those people don't have an understanding of what power and control dynamics actually look like to be having this conversation. So I'm really glad we're talking about this because I think I saw a lot of people be very confused of like, but she's doing these harmful things to him, and that's what abuse is. And I'm like, that's half of what abuse is, right?

Unknown Speaker  8:36  
What we're talking about right now is unhealthy behavior, right? And all of us have the capacity to do that. All of us have the capacity for harm. Every single person on this planet has that capacity, right? Even if that's not your intention, all these things. So I think that's something when we are talking about these kinds of things, like what

Unknown Speaker  8:55  
is abuse versus toxic and unhealthy, right? And when we talk to clients about abuse, often what we are talking about is the pattern of the dynamic. It's not just the behavior in which things are happening, right? Whether that's physical, emotional, verbal, all the myriad of ways someone can be terrible to you, right? It's not just the ways they're terrible to you. It's also the pattern in which they are terrible to you, right? Is there some consistency to this is there. Are there these phases that we often talk about as advocates, right? That that honeymoon, that tension building, the incident, and then this calm period, right? That's what we're looking for when we're talking about an abuse dynamic. We're not necessarily looking just at harmful behavior, which should still be addressed, still not okay, right? But when we're talking about the pattern, that's when we start talking about abusive dynamics versus unhealthy and toxic issues. And I think I saw a lot of people, to use your language earlier, get lost in the sauce about what that actually means and what that actually looks like when we are looking at it from the outside in. And frankly, a lot of people don't have.

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
Enough information to be able to look at something from the outside in and say that's the abuser, that's the victim, and this is what's happening. And especially on a reality show, we definitely don't have that level of information. I mean, I think Jenae said it beautifully. Where there is a lot of pieces that we are not privy to in this in this you know Love Island universe. It's all controlled by the producer. So yes, to an extent, there is going to be what's going to make good reality TV, right? And I think I've noticed that between this and also like Love Is Blind, Ultimatum, all of these things where it's like we're putting people into these intense situations, and are we not expecting them to react a certain way?

Unknown Speaker  10:38  
Yes, call out the unhealthy behavior. Do what we need to do with that because it should be a lens should be put on that, but also at the same time, it's like this is not how normal life is. They it is like you know very intense. You are stuck with all of these people on this island, and then you're always worried about you know how you're going to be perceived then because then there is that part in the back of your mind of how is America going to see me, and I think that gets brought up a lot of times whenever there are recouplings and stuff like that, where you'll hear contestants say,

Unknown Speaker  11:06  
"What is America seeing that I'm not? And I think we saw that play out a lot with Melanie and Sincere because he is giving her that you know reassurance of like, "Oh, nothing is wrong. Like, no, I only kissed her once, or oh no, like you know, I don't want her. I want you, and then people getting mad at Melanie for having her little blow up that she had, or still going back to this person because she's trusting what he's telling her, and she doesn't get to see all the behind the scenes stuff that we as viewers get to see. And I think that's something that gets lost a lot of times with people. Whenever it's like these are just people, they're reacting, they're doing what they feel they need to do, and they're not seeing everything that we are seeing. Yeah, again, I think it's just like those mind games, right? That the producers are implementing for that drama. So I'm glad, like you mentioned that, and I think especially with them, it it was hard for me as a viewer to see  all of that going on, you know, and and like you know, he is straight up lying to her face. But we have that context, as you said, she does not. Even if other folks might have mentioned things here or there, or especially, I'm thinking about the Cassandra boys, right, for that season, who are like Melody, like all these things are going on, and they're all telling her about what he's said, what he's done, or at least warning her, and yet you know, yeah, she still was like, but I really do like this person, so it's hard, you know, it's like holding grace for her because, again, like she is a human being,

Unknown Speaker  12:36  
and

Unknown Speaker  12:38  
there might, of course, be things that we're not seeing because there's so much editing going on, especially live editing. So it's like, yeah, we might not even be getting the whole picture as well. But there's still obviously a lot of things that you know raised red flags, right? So I'm wondering, like, what are your thoughts on that as well?

Unknown Speaker  12:57  
I think one of the things that kind of stood out to me when I was like watching this season versus last season was just like the treatment of somebody that the audience perceived to be abusive, right? Like the way we watch, and I'm sorry to keep bringing up Hoda. It's just like who I can think of based off of how she was treated. So I think when we're looking at like how people are reacting in a gender dynamic way. People threw Huda under the damn bus the whole season, and like again, I'm not condoning a lot of her behavior. I do think a lot of that behavior was toxic, unhelpful, harmful in a number of ways. Things that need to be addressed in her personal life, and I don't necessarily believe them to be abusive based on the fact that there was not this pattern, right? And I think when we watched some of what we watched between the dynamic between Sincere and Melanie this season, it was very clear to me as an advocate that some of this is abusive behavior, right? And while people were talking about it, they were not throwing sincere under the bus in the same ways. It's like it's almost like the expectation that we have for men to perpetrate allows them to get away with whatever they want without being held accountable in a real way for these behaviors. And I thought that was a very interesting dynamic to see after people were heinous to hooda online, and I I know things have happened since then that have kind of made it made it seem like there's some stuff going on for her, and and she may seem like she may be an abusive person, right? But that's not what we witnessed of her on Buff Island, so I found that to be very interesting, just given that, and I think it reminds me of how often our survivors that we meet with are the ones doing the work, right? After they have been harmed, and I would say you know Huda and Jeremiah harmed each other in that situation, and not know like this is mutual abuse. That's not real, and we don't believe in that. So I want to be very clear about that. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is we watch two toxic people be toxic with each other which doesn't necessarily equate to abuse, but then we watch the whole world treat  the woman in particular like she was the scum of the earth, and I just find that to be very interesting and very telling of a culture that we live in that allows male perpetuated violence to continue and  thrive in some ways, because we refuse to hold those men accountable, and when I say we, I mean as a collective, right? As a society, but also as men with other men refusing to hold each other accountable for the behaviors that that they are naming and and seeing. And I do think we saw a little bit of that in this season, which was kind of cool, right? But I think we we saw a lot of red pill kind of scary stuff from the men that was more concerning this season than it was last season for me. So long-winded way of saying why is the woman treated so differently when we think the same thing is happening? Even saw that play out this season between Kenzie and all of her her many men, and then how we saw Sincere and Melanie's relationship, and how the other islanders reacted to it. Because on movie night, we got to see who sincere was, and we got to even see things that us as an audience maybe didn't see before, and we got to see more of it on movie night. And I think we did see the men's reaction to that. Like everyone went silent at that point and realized how bad it was. But then you go to the next episode and it's Kenzie and it's showing everything that she did, and people were comparing her to Sincere. People on the island even said it's giving Sincere.

Unknown Speaker  16:30  
And here's the thing: did she do some shadier stuff, and did she do some little, you know, exaggerating of the truth in her own way? Yes. Do I think it was to the same level as sincere and what he did to Melanie, not at all. But people were in the villa were so quick to not give Kenzie grace, but then give it to Sincere.

Unknown Speaker  16:49  
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for clearly like wording that and naming that because that's exactly what we saw. I think you know that's what I was going to say. Like I feel like everyone was so quick, and just on the show between like the cast members, right? They were very quick to stand up for Sincere and defend him. He during movie night he barely spoke. Honestly, like that's what I saw. I was like, everyone's speaking for him. He's not even trying to defend himself, which you know I'm not advocating for that. But I just mean like it was so interesting because, like, especially the men on the show were like, "Well, no, yeah, exactly. Like Kenzie is the same way, or like you know, he's just trying to figure things out, poor thing. And I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Like, what are we doing here? We're villainizing the women a lot, right? We do see that pattern as we did with Huda, and we're putting the men on a pedestal and saying it's okay. We forgive you. No worries. You're just making mistakes. You're in a show. And I think that  is just horrible to see, especially as someone who does identify as a woman, right? Like, and I like when we are socialized as women, like we're expected to be perfect partners  and give the grace within these heterosexual relationships, especially with men, and be very forgiving and allow a lot of mistreatment and even abuse. I think it speaks what you're saying speaks to

Unknown Speaker  18:19  
the culture of silence, right? And I think when we are talking about IPV in particular, like this this defense of like that we watched of Sincere and of his actions is very common, right? It's something we see with our our clients all the time, where maybe the family of the perpetrator is like, but he's a good guy, you know. And I'm using very gendered language. I apologize, but  like we see those dynamics happen, right? And I think it speaks to that larger culture of silence that we allow when we are talking about IPV, right? Because unless you do this work, and I think we've all probably had the response, right? People are like, "Oh my God, why would you do that work? Like, why do you want to do that, right? Like, and the the answer is because it's happening, regardless of if I do the work or not. It's happening, and no one's talking about it. And this kind of violence persists in silence. So if we don't talk about it and we don't name it for what it is and call it out when we see it, this is how it like proliferates, right? Like this is prevention work. Is to to call others in, especially folks that you're in community with, to hold them accountable to those behaviors. Because someone like me, or someone like Cassandra or Marissa, who does this professionally, right? Calling someone in who already kind of thinks like that, they don't hear it the same from us, right? They hear it better from their community. So I think it's very telling of the dynamics that kind of exist within like the social culture, specifically for men, which I find very interesting because I'm not a man and I was not socialized as a man. And I think when you're socialized as a woman in this society, we have a different tendency of holding each other accountable in in a very different way, and that's not. always true, of course. I'm making very broad generalizations, but  I think we see that very differently than we do in in groups of men. So it's very interesting to me to see that in such a small way,  and that's how folks get away with abuse, right? Of oh, he's a good guy.

Unknown Speaker  20:15  
Something was going on for him that day. Oh, he has mental health problems. Oh, he was drunk. None of these things are excuses for abuse. They may be explanations for why someone is behaving a certain way, but none of them are excuses to abuse another person. And I think that's something that we really need to focus on as well, because I can't count the number of times I have heard, "But my partner is mentally ill,  and I've had to go, "I hear that,  and so are you, and you don't do this to them. Or I hear that, and so are a lot of people, and they don't do this to other people, right? So I think giving some level of excuse for his behavior just kind of shows, in a very real way, how we deal with this violence as a society.

Unknown Speaker  20:56  
And I know we're talking about Melanie and Sincere a lot, but I think that's just the biggest one that was shown, and I think something that was hard to watch, especially was when the families came in, because

Unknown Speaker  21:08  
especially with Sincere's dad, like he was calling him out and saying, like, "You do not treat a woman this way, and it's like the fact that we are seeing this, where it's like somebody who does know you outside of this is still calling you out and being like, "I did not raise you this way. We do not do this to people. I'm on Melanie's side in this, and then seeing Melanie's family also do that and being like, "You deserve so much more. Her mom made me cry when she was like, "Why do we keep giving this person a chance when there are so many waiting for their first one with you?

Unknown Speaker  21:35  
And first of all, that was healing in and of itself, especially coming from a Hispanic community where a lot of the times women we are told to put up with this from our husbands, our spouses, our partners, and so then seeing that, seeing the big sister come in and be like, Melanie, this is not a person for you. This is not what you deserve. I think having both parents, not just one set, but both parents, be like, this is not a healthy relationship for y'all to be in, and then to see Melanie hear it all, but then not necessarily absorb it. I think, unfortunately, was a perfect example of what we see a lot of the times in our office. Whenever someone comes in and is like, you know, I know everybody is telling me this, but I know this person, and this is my choice that I get to stay with you. Nobody else is going to make it for me, and it sadly was what we see all the time, where it's like no matter anybody can tell you, but it's going to take you realizing, you know, that this is happening. You're not okay with it in order to fully leave it. Well, and I think you bring up a good point about like judgment from outside in, right? Like that moment with her sister and her mother made me cry, because I think it was something that I sat through. It's a conversation I've sat through, right, personally, of like this person doesn't treat you very well. What are we doing, right? And then still personally remained in that relationship for many years, right? And I think it's something to your point, something we see all the time, but also

Unknown Speaker  23:01  
something that we saw a lot of judgment about this season, right? Of like, well, people have told her, and she knows, so now you know, leave him or shut up about it. I hear that all the time, especially on TikTok. I'm sure you've seen this as well, Marissa. We're both a little chronically online and have definitely seen the like. All right, you're complaining about your husband. Well, are you going to leave him? Because if not, we don't care. And I think that dynamic creates such a heavy silence for survivors who already have such a hard time accessing support, seeking help, talking about these things that are very shameful and taboo in our society. The second people start seeing that kind of thing or saying that kind of thing, I never think about like the celebrity who's going to see it. Right? Like Melanie's probably not gonna see you talking shit and doing all this, right?

Unknown Speaker  23:45  
But the person that you love in your life, who is a survivor, will, and then they will know that you are not a safe person to come to with those things because you are going to judge whatever decision they make, regardless of what that is, unless it's what you would do in that situation. And I just want to gently remind folks, like even if we've lived DV, if we've lived sexual violence, if we've lived stalking, even if we have the same identities, the same lived experience, which would be absolutely wild if was true, we still might make different decisions than someone else who's lived that experience, and that has to be okay, right? That doesn't mean that they can't access support anymore, or that they are undeserving of of the help, right? That that means there may be a gap in education. This person may not recognize what happened, what's happening to them as abuse. So we need to keep an open door somewhere like the PCA, right, or a trusted friend or family member that does understand these dynamics can hold that without judgment and can get them somewhere where the resources are whether that's more psychoed about is this abusive, or them wanting to report and going to to the the furthest end that we think of when we think of IPV, right? Like a criminal case. I think when we talk about these things in this way publicly, it makes survivors afraid of coming forward, and that not something that we need more of, because as I mentioned earlier, these crimes and this violence exists in silence specifically.

Unknown Speaker  25:07  
Oh my gosh, you are both so amazing. This has been such a fantastic dive into Love Island I can't even tell you how grateful I am, and specifically to your point, Jenae, about victim blaming, yes, like those questions around why don't they just leave, or especially in this case with cast members, like she could choose someone else, especially with again, like for me from memory, it's like Melanie, right? But like she didn't choose that Casa Amor person that was interested in her. Sorry, do not remember his name right now, but you know, yeah, like she chose instead to see, right? She chose to risk it all in that Love Island dramatic mindset and wait and see if Sincere would come back from Casa Amor single, you know. And then it's like, yeah, he did, but obviously she was still very upset with him. She, you know, saw the pictures that were shared by the producers, you know, of him being intimate with that Casa Amor person, and obviously also just like seeing that heartbreak challenge live on TV and how they all, you know, acted around each other. But yeah, it is really difficult to have those like conversations so publicly with social media, you know, making those comments towards those Love Island cast members and just in other situations, as we you know tend to see so much victim blaming online. So it's like where where does that line come where we can just respect someone's autonomy and their choices as adults, and especially, especially, specifically respecting survivors' autonomy when they do choose to stay within a relationship. So I'm glad you touched on that, Jenae and Marissa. Do you have any thoughts on that as well as like we move into this topic before we close?

Unknown Speaker  27:00  
I think Jenae said it very well too. Where it's like, for some people, yes, it's difficult to support someone in that way. There's a difference between supporting and also enabling, and I think we saw that a lot within the Islanders. And it wasn't until you know Family Day, whenever Anaya's mom came in and was like, "Why aren't you saying anything to your girl? That's your best friend. You're not saying anything. And then same thing with like the boys that nobody really called out sincere until towards the end. Was kind of like, dude, you did mess up. You need to apologize. Like you need to take accountability, as they all like to say. And it is it is to an extent holding people accountable, but then also being okay with the other person's choice after that, and it's like, and if you can't do that, okay, that's fine, that's your decision. But then, don't demonize that other person for their choice because then it's not going to make them feel comfortable to tell anyone again or to feel like people are telling them the truth.

Unknown Speaker  27:57  
Well, and to your point, Marissa, like just to throw in some stats, right? This is one we quote often. We know that the way somebody responds to a disclosure of specifically sexual violence, I believe, is what this study is from. But we know how somebody responds to that really matters for the survivor, right? Because say that somebody has a really negative response, they have a higher likelihood of developing things like PTSD, higher likelihood of never talking about these issues again, right? Like a lot of people are like, "Well, why didn't you say something back then? They probably did, and they were probably treated like shit for saying something back then, whatever that means, right? Oftentimes in this office, right? Sometimes we're hearing people tell their story for the very first time because they've never had someone believe what they have to say.

Unknown Speaker  28:43  
It's so harmful to somebody's mental health when they have survived interpersonal violence. So I think it's like to your point, Marissa, so important that if you don't feel like you have the capacity to show up for a survivor in the way that they really need, right? And that's not to say go be victim advocate. That's not your job. That's our job, right? But that is to say, if you don't feel like you can show up in a non-judgmental way that centers that person's autonomy when you are talking to somebody who is experiencing interpersonal violence, then maybe you are not the person to support them. And it is so okay to be self-aware enough to say, "I don't know enough about this, but I can find you somebody who does. And that is going to be way more helpful to a survivor than you being an asshole to them because you don't understand why they're choosing the choices that they are, because experts in this field like ourselves we do understand that and we would love to talk to that client about that and how things have ended up that way and we can do it in a very trauma informed, not judgmental, and very loving and supporting, empowering way, and that's why places like our our office exist, right? Versus, you know, just having to do it all alone as a friend or family member. So that was amazing. Thank you both so much. And you know, just for some last thoughts, right? Like maybe we can talk about exactly like what the advocacy services look like from your perspectives as advocates for survivors here at the Phoenix Center. If you want to just mention each, you know your favorite parts, some challenges, but also again, like those services that you offer.

00:17:48.881 --> 00:18:00.881
Um, I know one of my favorite parts that I get to do, as well as one of our services that we offer, is the education surrounding it. Especially whenever someone comes in where they're like, you know, I'm having some issues in my relationship,

00:18:01.287 --> 00:18:07.287
But I don't really know what it is, can we talk about it? And then seeing that moment where somebody realizes,

00:18:07.282 --> 00:18:14.282
I don't have to feel this way in my relationship anymore. Now I have words to it. I have the ability to say what this is.

00:18:14.520 --> 00:18:28.520
is always a big thing to see, because we're a small part of that journey that they're on, and just being able to hold space for that person and sit there and have people be like, you're the first person I've ever told about this, and this is the first time I'm saying it out loud of this is what happened to me.

00:18:28.915 --> 00:18:34.915
I think is very honoring. Um, it's not something that everybody gets to do, or somebody has the capacity for, right?

00:18:35.498 --> 00:18:39.498
And the fact that we get to have that small little moment with somebody and, you know, be like,

00:18:39.881 --> 00:18:47.881
you do know what's going on, and now you have the language for it, and you've got someone right there with you to sit in all the shit with you, basically.

00:18:50.384 --> 00:18:54.384
Absolutely. I think the most empowering part for me.

00:18:54.384 --> 00:18:59.914
Is similar to what Marissa said. It's a beautiful thing to sit with somebody and watch them.

00:19:00.722 --> 00:19:03.722
Build their own empowerment because at the end of the day, like

00:19:04.183 --> 00:19:09.183
Clients, they're experts in their lives. We're just frankly, folks who know things about IPV, right? And that's why they're coming here.

00:19:10.179 --> 00:19:16.179
At the end of the day, everything that happens in these offices and every change that happens for folks with the IPV stuff.

00:19:16.497 --> 00:19:22.497
is a choice that they made. It's their autonomy, it's driven by them, it's what they want and how they need to move forward.

00:19:22.497 --> 00:19:28.203
And I think there was something so beautiful about being a part of that process and that empowerment piece.

00:19:28.508 --> 00:19:36.508
Um, and seeing somebody recognize that they are worth so much more than how people have treated them. I think that that is a really powerful thing to be a part of.

00:19:37.124 --> 00:19:41.124
Um, even if we don't always get to see the outcome of it, which is very common in our work.

00:19:41.507 --> 00:19:46.507
And just to your question as well, Cassandra, some of the services offered in our office, right?

00:19:46.767 --> 00:19:48.767
We do a wide…

00:19:49.501 --> 00:19:51.501
range of things as advocates. So,

00:19:51.686 --> 00:19:53.686
Um, I like to say…

00:19:53.792 --> 00:19:58.792
My job is to provide you a buffet of options. You take whatever is the most helpful to you, right? So

00:19:59.766 --> 00:20:06.766
Oftentimes that means finding resources for people, accompanying them to court or Title IX hearings, police interviews, those kinds of things.

00:20:07.451 --> 00:20:10.451
Academic advocacy for folks who are students on the campus.

00:20:10.452 --> 00:20:13.913
This looks like reaching out to your professors and asking for flexibility.

00:20:14.481 --> 00:20:17.481
Um, whether that's what deadlines or attendance,

00:20:17.482 --> 00:20:26.219
Also, emotional support, we do a lot of coping and grounding in here, um, things like that. One thing we are not is clinicians. We are not counselors or therapists, so.

00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:28.200
We are meant to be a short-term service.

00:20:28.913 --> 00:20:35.913
We are not like your trauma counselor. We do not have the skills for that at this current moment, so.

00:20:37.118 --> 00:20:46.118
That's like one of the things that often gets confused is like, yeah, we can do that limited emotional support, that coping and grounding, but we're not going to be treatment planning folks, right? Like that kind of thing.

00:20:46.860 --> 00:20:49.860
We'll be referring them out to a clinician at that point.

00:20:49.798 --> 00:20:54.798
Our services kind of run the gambit. It's kind of whatever you need, and I know we've been getting a lot of weird

00:20:54.912 --> 00:20:58.912
Weird requests that kind of keep it fun and interesting for us, um, but…

00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:00.839
you know, we do a lot of

00:21:01.716 --> 00:21:03.716
kind of case management mixed with victim advocacy.

00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:13.519
And whatever that looks like for the individual. I would say our services get kind of tailored to the person who's in the room, right? We try very hard to not be

00:21:13.435 --> 00:21:16.435
one-size-fits-all, whatever the that means.

00:21:16.806 --> 00:21:22.806
Um, for a service. So, we do a lot of different stuff. If you're unsure if we do something and you want to know.

00:21:22.924 --> 00:21:24.924
Come in, give us a call,

00:21:25.124 --> 00:21:27.124
We'll figure it out together.

00:21:27.821 --> 00:21:34.821
We are a Swiss Army knife of different things, and like Janae said, it'll get tailored to whatever the person in front of us needs.

00:21:35.171 --> 00:21:40.171
And sometimes that means a first for everything, and hey, if it's within our capacity, and we're allowed to do it,

00:21:45.003 --> 00:22:11.003
Beautiful. That was amazing. Thank you so much for giving our listeners those reminders of what we do offer, what y'all specifically do in your daily work at Survivor Advocates with the Phoenix Center at Auraria. So I do appreciate that you can go into that detail just in case, again, you know, as we're going into this fall semester of 2026, you know for all of our

00:22:11.910 --> 00:22:24.910
Auraria campus members, whether it's students, staff, faculty, community members, alumni, it's really important for them to know, again, what we offer, especially as we encounter a lot of these issues that, yeah, we touched on

00:22:24.911 --> 00:22:41.737
in relation to Love Island, but also play many different parts in our lived experiences and impacts, right? Or again, just like what we have seen from different survivors across the Auraria campus and beyond

00:22:41.218 --> 00:22:49.218
And so again, I'm so grateful for both of you. Are there any final thoughts that you want to each share real quick before we end?

00:22:49.219 --> 00:22:50.621
we're gonna do it!

00:22:49.404 --> 00:22:51.404
Alright

00:22:53.369 --> 00:23:13.369
Awesome, perfect. Well, listeners, thank you so much for being here with us, for diving into Love Island a little bit more and hearing our thoughts, right, our perspectives, our opinions. Definitely keep that in mind as well. And we're just excited, you know, to kind of

00:23:13.370 --> 00:23:41.701
dive into the episode's examples from these more recent seasons and also season eight will have their reunion show coming up soon. So that is something important to know. We are looking forward to seeing that and seeing, you know, kind of like maybe some more truths come out about the different, you know relationships and, you know, people's more honest opinions maybe on the dynamics that we've seen

00:23:41.715 --> 00:23:59.715
And so, you know, again, I want to thank you all for that. And please access the resources that we have to offer with the Phoenix Center at Auraria because if you were impacted by Levi Island, or again, if you have your own lived experiences, we definitely want to support you in that. You are not alone.

So thank you all folks, see you in the next one.

If you or someone you know is experiencing interpersonal violence, you can visit the Phoenix Center in Tivoli 227, you can call our 24/7 free and confidential helpline at (303) 556-2255, or you can schedule an appointment with us online at thepca.org.

Alright listeners, I'll see you in the next one.