Phoenix Cast

Abortion Access, Reproductive Coercion, and Survivor Autonomy Part 1

• Phoenix Center at Auraria • Season 7 • Episode 12

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In part 1 of this episode of The Phoenix Cast, Violence Prevention Educator Cassandra Carmona-Wayman (she/hers/ella) talks with reproductive health advocate Cristina Ponce (she/hers) about how abortion care works, common myths about abortion, and the impact of post‑Dobbs restrictions. They also explore reproductive coercion as a form of abuse, its connections to interpersonal violence, and why protecting survivors’ bodily autonomy and access to abortion is essential.

Content warnings: discussion of intimate partner violence, reproductive coercion, sexual and physical violence, abortion (including later‑term), pregnancy loss, legal and systemic barriers to care, and brief mention of hospitalization due to assault.

Additionally:

We discuss healthcare clinics and abortion providers near the Denver Metro area. Please be aware of clinics that misrepresent their services and can appear misleading to patients in need of care. Some “crisis pregnancy centers” near campus and in Denver are not medical clinics and may offer misleading or incomplete information about abortion and pregnancy options. When you can, seek licensed providers or clinics that clearly offer full-spectrum reproductive healthcare, and remember you can reach out to the Phoenix Center at Auraria for confidential support and accurate referrals.

Sources and Resources mentioned in the episode:

You can learn more about your options with healthcare service providers like Just the Pill. They can provide vital information and assistance with abortion, contraception, and other sexual and reproductive health services. We provide efficient and equitable access to health care by telemedicine. https://justthepill.com/about-us/

You can also look into resources like Elevated Access. They are a nonprofit organization that provides free air transportation through a network of volunteer pilots, helping people travel to essential healthcare services they might not otherwise be able to reach. Their services primarily support access to abortion care and gender-affirming care by coordinating safe, confidential flights in partnership with healthcare and advocacy organizations across the United States.

Be aware of Denver Metro Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs):

If you are in crisis and need immediate support, please call our 24/7 interpersonal violence helpline at 303-556-2255.

Request an Appointment with an Advocate at
https://www.thepca.org/online-appointment-request

Request a Violence Prevention Presentation at
https://www.thepca.org/prevention-education

Instagram @phoenixauraria

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  0:00: Hello and welcome to the Phoenix Cast. Welcome back to the Phoenix Cast. This is episode 12 of season seven. I'm your host Cassandra Carmona Wayman. My pronouns are she, hers, ella, and I'm one of the violence prevention educators here with the Phoenix Center at Auraria. Today we're going to be discussing abortion access, reproductive coercion, and survivor autonomy. These topics are very deeply connected to interpersonal violence and healthy relationships, bodily autonomy, and access to healthcare. And so, our goal today would be to better understand these topics, right? So, what abortion care actually looks like, the barriers that people like survivors face in accessing care, and why reproductive autonomy is especially important for survivors of abuse. So, just to give some content warnings before diving deeper into today's dialog, there's going to be a lot of discussions around relationship violence and intimate partner violence. We will also be discussing themes around reproductive autonomy, health, abortion, and abortion myths. And also, listeners, if you happen to get activated or just need to talk with someone during or after this podcast, you can always give our 24/7 helpline a call, and that phone number is 303-556-2255. Now let's get back to the podcast. I'm very excited to welcome a special guest to the show, Cristina Ponce. She works in reproductive health and abortion care, and brings both professional expertise and firsthand experience supporting patients, as well as you know she'll talk more about her personal connection to some of these topics. So, Cristina, thank you so much for being here today.

 

Cristina Ponce  2:18: Hi, Cassandra. Thank you so much for having me. I work at a nonprofit organization called Just the Pill, and we help people access the abortion pill in four different states. And I feel personally connected to this work as a person who has suffered interpersonal violence and has had two abortions of my own. So I definitely feel connected to this work on a personal basis, and speaking to patients firsthand. I am actually the business. I'm more on the business operations side of things, but I still get the opportunity to talk to patients, which really helps keep me grounded in this work to speak to patients in the reality that different patients face, and especially in their intersectionality of their identities, we absolutely respect people's choice. You know,

 

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  3:10:  Yeah. Thank you so much, Cristina, for sharing more about yourself and for kind of giving us insight into the work that you do. You know, of course, it's very important, and you know, I think that we can also share with our listeners some of like the abortion care basics, right? You know, I think that as you kind of touched on, abortion care is like something that is so vital, and there is a lot of issues going on nationally right now. So you know, we have to kind of like help people understand like why this kind of healthcare service is so vital and important, so that you know we can all hopefully like have a better understanding, create more awareness, and bring you know more access, right? So especially like everything that you're doing is like so important, so that more and more people, not just in those four states, but like beyond that, can get access to abortion, like maybe telehealth, right? And so we'll we'll kind of go into all of this again. Like great place to start is just with the basics. So to kind of get down to the foundation, the term you know abortion care does get used very often, right? But people might not know what that actually includes, what that actually means. So, the World Health Organization defines abortion care as comprehensive healthcare that can include pregnancy options, counseling, medication abortion, procedural abortion, miscarriage management, follow-up care, pain management, and emotional support. So, in other words, it's much broader than a single medical procedure, like most people think, and so it is considered an essential component of reproductive health care. Just so our listeners know, I will be putting all the data and statistics that we share and the sources into the description of the podcast, so that you can all learn more directly. But Cristina, just from what you know, your experiences have been like, you know, what does abortion care actually look like day to day?

Cristina Ponce  5:17: So abortion day to day looks very different for many different individuals. You know, some people the decision is very easy. Some people the decision is very difficult, and I do think that we live in a time where media really glorifies the difficult decisions. And I had like the stories of I had an abortion because you know the pregnancy that I really wanted to see to term wasn't viable. I had an abortion because it was an ectopic pregnancy. So the media really glorifies that, and I although those stories are very important to elevate and you know put in the forefront, they are not everyone's experience. I think the media sort of glorifies those because it's what motivates change, maybe at the legislative level. However, there are people having abortions who don't have those crisis experiences. They have more of a realization that they're pregnant and they are able to have a telehealth provider provide them the pills, have them mailed directly to their home, and you know they have a weekend of self medicating these abortion these abortion pills, and then there are others who have had a longer term pregnancy who then have to have like a two day procedure in a clinic, and I know that right now there are only a few states in the U.S. that provide later-term abortions, but those are also valid stories. So abortion looks different across so many landscapes, and especially right now, where demographically where you're located really determines the care that you get, and determines you know how much money you have to spend you know on lodging if you have to travel because you live in Texas on a procedural abortion. Luckily, there are a lot of abortion funds, and I would say that a lot of people have this pre notion that you know abortions are expensive, and yes, they are. But there are so many wonderful people who have these networks of abortion funds who are more than willing to help people pay for their abortion and help with even logistical or lodging, gas, money, things like that, for patients who have more limited access to abortion. So yeah, abortion looks different all across the the board for many different people. To answer your question, Cassandra.

 

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  7:54: Yeah, thank you so much for expanding on that, Cristina. Absolutely, 100% it does. You know, I mean, these decisions are made by people who are coming from different backgrounds, obviously different locations. So yeah, their stories are going to be different. Their circumstances are going to be different. And then, as you mentioned, you know, I think like one of the biggest things I wanted to point out, right, is like one misconception for sure that we hear often is that you know abortion is dangerous, or maybe abortion is uncommon, right? But obviously, the evidence, our research tells us very different stories. And specifically, I looked at you know research from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine found that you know legal abortion is one of the safest medical procedures in the United States. So even you know, with serious complications occurring in well under 1% of cases, and and you know, of course, in fact, like carrying a pregnancy to term has a way higher risk of serious health complications than having a legal abortion.

Cristina Ponce 9:00: Yes, totally. I agree. I mean, I think that, and you know, research tells us that post Dobbs, Roe v. Wade, the falling of this constitutional right to an abortion has actually increased the number of abortions happening in the U.S. So these laws aren't actually advocating for the amount of people who need abortions. Many people need abortions for many different reasons, and those reasons are personal, and all of them are legitimate.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  9:33: 

Yeah, absolutely, and you know exactly like as you mentioned, like we just passed the anniversary of the reversal of the Dobbs decision, right? And so, yeah, we've seen just the alarmingly ginormous increase of abortion needs, right? And of course, of abortion care. And so, you know, something I think is also important to point out, right? Another statistic I wanted to bring up was. That many people might not know, you know, around already 60% of people who are already parents have obtained abortions, right? These are people that are already parents, they already have children, and and with you know other pregnancies, they do decide to have an abortion, and you know, research also shows us that you know many people seek abortion care. Of course, as you said, for many reasons, and the majority of those reasons have been found to be financial concerns, health issues, educational goals, caring for those existing children that many of those parents already have right, or leaving abusive relationships, which is definitely key to the work that we do here with the Phoenix Center as we support survivors of interpersonal violence. So again, it's just it's very rarely like a simple one-dimensional decision. And the mistake was coming from Guttmacher Institute, so I did want to point that out real quick. But you know, again, like from what from your perspectives, what do you wish like some people understood about the patients that you've worked with?

Cristina Ponce 11:14:  Well, to your point, many of them are parents. They have children that they are caring for, and these abortion restrictions really affect parents. They affect people who currently have children who are you know working really hard to provide for their current family, and if they have an unplanned pregnancy, where that can completely shift their financial stability. They should have the right and access to a safe abortion, and that abortion should be whatever type of abortion they want to have, whether it be a procedural abortion or a medication abortion. So yeah, I think that that's a big misconception: is that you know people who have kids don't have abortions. That is false. A huge majority of them do, and of course we have patients who it's their first time becoming pregnant, and they're in college or they're in a circumstance where they did not account for that in their plan. And I think that it's completely fair that whatever reason you have to have an abortion, that you should just have access to one.

 

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  12:27:

Yes, thank you so much for saying that. 100% agree. You know, and I haven't had an abortion. However, I know that that is the care I want. Right, I would want an abortion if I were to become pregnant, because right now, like, I am not ready to become a parent. I would not want to continue a pregnancy, you know. And I think that there are like many people that like might feel that way, right? So we we absolutely need that type of healthcare. We need access to abortion because you know everyone again needs to make their own informed decisions based off of their circumstances, and especially again tying this back to like survivors who might have difficult circumstances, and if they do encounter reproductive coercion, which is the next topic I wanted to go into. So again, you know, one of the reasons I invited you to this podcast so that we can have this conversation on the Phoenix Cast was because of how connected reproductive health is with interpersonal violence, right? And so, do you want to kind of talk about like what you feel is you know considered like reproductive coercion?

Cristina Ponce 13:41:  

Well, it can look very different. It can be forcing your partner to take birth control, forcing your partner not to take birth control, breaking your condom on purpose to a purposefully impregnate your partner, forcing them to have an abortion, forcing them not to have an abortion. Basically, coercion is removing the autonomy that a person should have over their body, and it can look so many different ways. It can look like gaslighting. It can look like support. Actually, it can look like oh, this person is supporting me. But in reality, it can you know abusive people come in all different shapes and sizes, and they all have different ways in which they abuse, so I think that you know interpersonal violence plays a huge role into reproductive care because most people will let those closest to them what you know in on what's happening with their body, like oh actually I missed my period, or you know they might tell their partner, and you know we even have minors who might be coerced into having an abortion or not having an abortion. So really, it's removing that autonomy from the person using different tactics that can all be found in the interpersonal violence wheel.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  14:58: 

Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. You know. Yeah, exactly. Like the National Domestic Violence Hotline, as the CDC also, you know, they do define reproductive coercion as a form of abuse, right? And it that like abuse can take its own forms, and so you know it is a series of threats or acts of violence against a person's just reproductive health or reproductive decision making, so you know definitely thank you for touching on that because overall at its core, you know reproductive coercion is about taking away someone's ability to make that voluntary decision about their own body, and you know so we do have research that estimates that between about eight and 16% of women, specifically, that experience reproductive coercion during their lifetime, and from there, you know, rates are just significantly higher among survivors of intimate partner violence. And so, do you have any stories about patients where you've kind of seen maybe the reproductive coercion show up, or how it might be talked about within, you know, like your workplace.

 

Cristina Ponce 16:08:  Well, I will say we are very fortunate to have such an experienced team. We have social workers, well, people with social work degrees who are able to really walk our patients through that, but that is a very sensitive topic for us. You know, I've experienced patients not being able to text us; they have to email us, or they can only talk to us. You know, during certain periods of time. The first year of me working in reproductive care, one of the most gruesome experiences that I had was a patient who, whose partner found their phone, and found out that they were wanting an abortion, and he beat her so hard that she had to be hospitalized, and she lost the pregnancy anyway. So because of the beating, so there's so many things that happen with people who are seeking abortion care, who might even their partner might even be forcing them to be pregnant, might be even forcing them to have sexual relationships with them. So yeah, it looks very different, and especially for other intersectionalities like queer and trans people, and that interpersonal violence can, you know, further push them to be vulnerable.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  17:37: Yeah, it's going to affect many different people, and of course, I want to point out that it it might not just happen within intimate partner relationships, but in reality, we do see reproductive coercion just from different you know abusive individuals in survivors' lives, right? So that could really be anyone, family, friends, perhaps you know neighbors. Yeah, definitely. And so, you know, overall, I also wanted to mention how reproductive coercion is just that umbrella term that encompasses a wide range of abuses. So all all of it is meant to maintain someone's power and control over someone else. Can take so many shapes and forms. So some of the specific examples I wanted to include coming from like national domestic violence hotline. Besides the ones you shared, were forcing someone to get an abortion or preventing them from getting one, threatening to tell people in your life, loved ones like family, friends, or perhaps even law enforcement that you received an abortion. Maybe withholding finances that you need to purchase contraceptives, which is a form, you know, of financial abuse, and you know, refusing to use a condom or other types of contraceptives, and then breaking or removing a condom during intercourse, which we do define as stealthing, which is a common tactic in abusive relationships and interpersonal violence, and so making those threats becoming violent if you don't follow someone's wishes to end or continue a pregnancy, like all of that, are examples of reproductive coercion. And research from the CDC from 2024 does show us how reproductive coercion rarely occurs alone. People experiencing reproductive coercion, like survivors, are significantly more likely to also experience other forms of abuse. So again, like that, that might include whether it's intimate partner violence and physical violence, sexual violence, community violence, emotional abuse, stalking, and other controlling behaviors, and of course, like psychological aggression. So we do see how dangerous that is. But abortion care is so necessary, right? Because it gives survivors that option to have a say, right, over their own bodies and have that autonomy.

 

Cristina Ponce 20:00: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and you see the rise of violence, especially when you have these restrictive laws over a person's body, and the person who is upholding those laws or policing women or people, pregnant people, trans people about their body and their option to have one are those same abusive people who are like, oh, if you have this abortion, I will turn you into the police officer or to law enforcement. I will tell the nurses or I will tell the doctors that you took these pills, and you see a lot of people who are being arrested for either self-managing an abortion or even having a miscarriage, you know we see so many different people who are getting prosecuted or arrested on the basis of mishandling a corpse or you know having a self-medicated abortion with mifepristone and misoprostol. So it really these restrictive laws just increase interpersonal violence because then these people can weaponize these laws, these restrictive laws against these people who are already vulnerable.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  21:16:  Yeah, absolutely, exactly as we see if they're calling them like the bounty hunter laws, right? So yes, we're we're just constantly seeing like more and more barriers, and even when abortion is technically legal, it's like it doesn't mean it is accessible. We see that time and time again, of course, ever since going back, right, like Supreme Court's 2022 decision in Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health organization. So we have seen how abortion access has changed so dramatically across the country. Many states having enacted bans, while they may not call them bans, right? They're calling them like severe restrictions, or not even severe, but just like restrictions. And this is all forcing so many patients again to travel hundreds of miles to receive care. We're seeing so many researchers report how there's longer wait times and just increased demand in states where abortion does remain legal. And you mentioned there's four states that like your organization oversees. Is there something like standing out to you based off of those four states.

 

Cristina Ponce 22:21:  Well, those four states are Wyoming, Montana, Minnesota, and Colorado. And so there's a lot of neighboring states there that will travel to. You know, there's South Dakota, North Dakota, and we even get some patients from Oklahoma. We get a lot of patients from Texas, and in my home state here, New Mexico, we have very protective abortion laws, and we are one of the states that provide abortions in any term of pregnancy. And so, these clinics, local clinics here, are overwhelmed by seeing patients from all over the U.S. you know, because they have to travel even more than any patient, especially if they're having a late-term abortion. So, yeah, we see a lot of patients who are willing to travel in order to get the healthcare that they need.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  23:16  

Yeah, it's definitely crippling the barriers for all patients, but especially survivors.

Cristina Ponce 23:22:  You know, there's patients who might live in a restrictive state like Texas, and they already have three kids, and they have a job that they're working 40 hours a week just to make ends meet, and they have to travel out of state. But that doesn't mean just paying for a flight or gas. It also means paying for childcare, and it also means taking time off and missing out on wages. So there's a lot of factors that go into patients who have to travel, and just because you know, oh, let the states do whatever they want, like you know, that's fine. It's it's legal in certain states. That does not mean that it's accessible, especially to patients who are already experience the interpersonal violence. Where, you know, how do they explain to a partner that they're that they need to travel out of town? How do they explain? How do they keep a pregnancy a secret without, you know, it becoming another in for the abuse that they're already experiencing.

 

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  24:24: Exactly, and you know that brings up to mind how our campus, especially, is such a unique campus where we have you know three different academic institutions, right? We have CU Denver, we have MSU Denver, and we have Community College of Denver, and so it's 1000s of students, both the traditional 18 to like 25 and non traditional students coming to attend one of our institutions at Arreary Campus, and unfortunately, right, it's like because they are college students, they are already experiencing those like compounding factors. That make it so much more difficult for them to afford anything, right? Like students right now at arari campus are experiencing these barriers.

Cristina Ponce 25:08: There's so many factors because a student has to manage their their school schedule, their deadlines, and then they have to keep track of this period and you know pay for their education and their lodging and probably their meals. And on top of that, can you imagine that person also dealing with interpersonal violence? The amount of emotional and executive function that goes into making a decision and an informed decision, and then finding going to a clinic, finding the resources, finding the funding, and I mean it's all possible. But I think that college students can be especially isolated in that sense of you know I have to keep going or I'm on a scholarship. I can't miss these deadlines. I can't really deal with the aftercare of an abortion, which can range, you know. It can range because some people, even though they, you know, most states I think will prescribe the medication abortion up to about 13 to 14 weeks. But if you're past that, then you're probably required to have a procedural abortion, which in in most places is a two day procedure, and so you have to take time off for two days, and then on top of that, you know the aftercare after that, the emotional aftercare after that, and maybe even finding the support system that you need, like having a good set of friends, or you know, there's just so much that goes into aftercare that is very personal to everyone's experience. So there's a lot of things that a you know a pregnant person who doesn't want to be pregnant might experience.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  26:49:  Exactly, exactly. And then again, like because we serve survivors, we see that you know we come face to face with folks who are experiencing these really abusive circumstances, or you know, other interpersonal violence, and if they don't want to keep their pregnancy, if they don't want to continue the pregnancy, and they would like an abortion, like it does become that much more difficult for them to navigate. Like, when is it safe for me to seek care? How do we plan for that person to access abortion care, and how can they afford it, right? So it's like, yeah, there's like so many layers to it, so many things that like that survivor has to think about and try to navigate, and they might have a support system or they might not, and we at the Phoenix Center try to be, you know, that support center for our students as much as possible, and so yeah, I'm just thinking about like all those you know compounding barriers, and I found a study that you know is often referenced for this type of like issue. So the Turnaway study led by Dr. Diana Green Foster, where researchers followed nearly 1000 women over five years and found that people who were denied wanted abortions were more likely to experience compounding like issues like financial hardship, poorer physical health, and ongoing contact with abusive partners compared with those who received the care that they needed at the time when they needed. And so that study was from 2020. So what are some of the impacts you've personally seen, also with like patients who have faced delays, or like maybe they're unable to access abortion care?

Cristina Ponce 28:27: One thing I do want to say is that even though there are these restrictive laws all throughout the U.S. there are clinics and ways to get access to abortion pills, and some of these pills are coming from outside of the United States. So I just want to put that out there that even though there are these restrictive laws, abortion pills are accessible in all 50 states. Not every patient knows that, and they might not be able to self-medicate with those medication abortions if they're past the gestational age, but you know sometimes we do see patients who maybe are past the gestational age that we can serve them, but they are still able to travel to places where a second trimester or third trimester abortion is still available and still an option.

Cassandra Carmona-Wayman  29:20:  Thank you for like stating that, for like clarifying that, like really important to get that information out there. Hello, listeners! You have just finished listening to part one of our abortion access, reproductive coercion, and survivor autonomy podcast episode. If you're ready to hear more, check out our next podcast episode. That will be part two of this episode number 12 of season seven. And reminder: if anything came up for you while listening to this podcast and you need some immediate support, you can contact our 24/7 helpline at 303-556-2255. All right, listeners. I'll see you in the next