Phoenix Cast

Pets & DV

• Phoenix Center at Auraria • Season 5 • Episode 7

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Often times, when we think about safety planning for survivors of domestic violence, we don’t always think about the choices they have to make about one of the most special creatures to them - their pets. 


Join Racheal Reed-Maloney (she/her) and Katie Campbell (she/her), the Director of Collaboration & Outreach at Red Rover, as they discuss how perpetrators of violence use pets as a way to maintain power and control over survivors, the impact domestic violence has on pets, and options survivors have when they are considering leaving an abusive relationship.


Check out the resources and statistics mentioned in this podcast below!

Volunteer Opportunities with Red Rover redrover.org/responders 

Instagram: @redroverorg

DomesticShelters.org 

Safe Havens Mapping Project https://www.safehavensforpets.org

National DV Hotline https://www.thehotline.org

Don’t Forget The Pets Project https://dontforgetthepets.org

My Dog is My Home https://www.mydogismyhome.org

My Pitbull is Family https://www.mypitbullisfamily.org

The Michaelson Foundation https://www.foundanimals.org

National LINC Coalition https://nationallinkcoalition.org

25 by 2025.org. https://25by2025.org

Pet Power & Control Wheel


If you are in crisis and need immediate support, please call our 24/7 interpersonal violence helpline at 303-556-2255.

Request an Appointment with an Advocate at
https://www.thepca.org/online-appointment-request

Request a Violence Prevention Presentation at
https://www.thepca.org/prevention-education

Instagram @phoenixauraria

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Phoenix cast I am your host today, Racheal. And for today's episode, we want to talk about a topic that often gets missed when we're talking about survivors experiences with relationship violence pets. To talk about this topic with me today, we have KATIE CAMPBELL from Red Rover. So everyone give a round of applause on your end on your phones and welcome Katie to the Phoenix cast.

Katie Campbell:

Oh Racheal I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Of course. And do you mind before we get started just sharing a little bit about yourself?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Katie Campbell, I am the Director of Collaboration and Outreach at Red Rover, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about Red Rover, but we're a national organization, doing what I think is a lot of fun and great work around the country. I personally, so my educational background is in criminal justice and sociology. Prior to coming to Red Rover, I actually worked in human services. So I mostly worked with families with young children, you know, really just kind of connecting them to resources and supporting them through, you know, situations, crisis situations, and I will share that I am a lifelong animal lover. So, my mom was the president of our local humane society. So always loved animals always had them in my home. But I like many folks who are maybe listening to this podcast, didn't put together domestic violence and pets and the human animal bond until I came to Red Rover about almost eight years ago in January. And so this is certainly a topic that is, you know, really close to me, you know, just really, I think, important, and really impacts a lot of people around the globe. So I'm excited to be here and chatting with you about it, Racheal.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Yeah,we're so excited to have you too. Because like you said, I don't think a lot of folks think about this. And sometimes even survivors, when they come into our space, they're like, oh, yeah, my pet, what do I do about my pet? So I'm really excited to like, talk with you more and learn more about your expertise. And I'm sure our listeners are too. And you mentioned earlier you're with Red Rover, do you mind sharing a bit about Red Rover and what this organization does for folks?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, absolutely. So Red Rover was started back in 1987. And we really started with our program called Red Rover responders. It's kinda like the Red Cross for animals. So we trained volunteers all throughout the US and Canada, on how to provide temporary emergency sheltering services for animals in natural disasters, cruelty situations, you know, that program has also grown to include having some of our teams of volunteers come out and actually help us make pet friendly spaces at domestic violence shelters. So so really, really cool program, we're always looking for volunteers. So definitely would encourage the folks listening to visit red rover.org/responders, and find out how they can become a volunteer. You know, we also help teach kids about kindness and compassion and empathy for animals and people through our humane education work. And of course, we have our Red Rover relief work. And so that is our granting program. You know, on one side, we help provide grants for emergency vet care. And then of course, it's also where all of our domestic violence grants and our and our support services live. So lots of lots of things happening here at Red Rover.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Awesome. And students. I'm sure y'all heard volunteer opportunities. I know a lot of y'all need that to graduate. So I will make sure that we put that link to their website into our podcast description, so y'all can get on that because I know how it is. It is stressful when last minute you have to get some hours then. So obviously a great resource to do that to students.

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Yeah, so let's go ahead and get started. I wanted to start us off with a statistic that I read from a survey called the PALS survey the national pet in animals living safely survey. So as I was reviewing information for this topic in this survey, specifically, they had found that survivors who had pets and were sharing about their experiences with relationship violence, about 97% of them reported that keeping their pet with them when they decided whether or not to leave, abuse was very important to them, and something they considered very seriously. And then about 50% of the survivors would not consider going to a shelter for themselves if they couldn't bring their pet with them. So me as also an animal lover like I'm not very surprised by this, but that's almost 100%. Do you find that's pretty common in the work that you've done with Red Rover or just in the past that a lot of survivors won't consider leaving an abusive relationship if they're not able to take their pets with them? Yeah, Racheal, this isn't surprising to me at all. And I really think this is an impactful study, it is one that I share quite often in our work. You know, the the foundational research really goes back to late 80s, early 90s. And found really similar statistics, the difference, and what I find the most impactful about the PALS report is that this was a survey of about 2500 survivors, you know, that were in a in a myriad of situations, you know, maybe they were just thinking about leaving an abuser, and they were planning to or had left an abuser. And so I think this gives us a really holistic view of what it means to be a survivor of domestic violence, and to experience domestic violence with a pet. The 50%, you know, roughly half is similar to what that foundational research, you know, really found back in the 90s, that a lot of survivors would delay leaving, there was even a study that found that 40% of survivors were unable to leave and abuser out of concern for their pet. So I, I, you know, really, really encourage folks to dive deeper into this PALS report, you know, and I would also share that 95% of pet owners consider their pet to be an important member of the family. And so it absolutely makes sense to me, that so many of the survivors would say, you know, keeping my pet with me factors into whether or not I'm going to seek shelter, because pets are family. So yeah, really, really important research there.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

So true. Yeah, I know, our office, we all have our little pets, we refer to them as our children, our employee of the month, it's just a different pet of ours so I definitely resonate with that. Yeah, pets are family. So I can't even imagine thinking of having to choose between my safety or my pet, that'd be such a hard decision, I can't imagine.

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, absolutely.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

In the same survey that we're talking about - and folks, I will also link this into our podcast description. If you want to dive more into the survey - 48% of survivors were worried that their abusive partner, or the person they were with who was abusive, whether that's family member friend, may potentially harm or kill their pet. And 37% reported that their abusive partner had already threatened to harm or kill their pets. And 29% of survivors said that pets had already been harmed or killed while with their abuser. So with those statistics in mind, Katie, what are some ways that you've seen perpetrators of violence use pets as a way to maintain power control over survivors?

Katie Campbell:

It's a great question, Racheal. And, you know, I'll call out one other statistic from this report kind of related to this. And that set, 76% of those survivors also notice changes in their pets behavior already. And so, you know, we know that obviously, this is something that affects the human survivors. But it is also something that, you know, truly affects these animal survivors as well. You know, and this is a question I get asked, often, you know, what does it look like, there's a really great power and control wheel that was adapted to reflect, you know, what animal violence looks like, within the context of power and control. And there's a lot of different ways that this may look, I think, some of the most important ones that I usually call out to folks are related to economic abuse. And so that might mean that the abuser refuses to provide veterinary care, pet food, or pet supplies, to the survivor and to their pet. We also see within legal abuse that a abuser ownership of pets to the survivors, so you know, not putting survivors name on the veterinary paperwork on the adoption or the purchase paperwork. And, you know, also within this realm of isolation, and so we see that that an abuser may refuse to allow, again, the survivor to get that veterinary care, or to even socialize the pet, maybe not being allowed to go out and about not go to a dog park, you know, and so I really like pointing these out, especially when we think about setting up programming for survivors and their pets to find that safety and healing together. You know, you may have pets that come into your program that aren't groomed as well as maybe your own pet, or are undernourished or under socialized. And so, you know, before we think that this is a bad pet parent, or this is a bad pet, you know, take that step back before we make that judgment and just think about what might be happening and what supportive services we can provide. And you know, absolutely, I think folks can many folks can probably imagine what some of the other abuse might look like, you know, when it comes to physical abuse, that physical harm, but you know, I really kind of like to point out, you know, some of those other ones because I I think we're generally pretty good at making judgments as humans, you know, we kind of jump to judgment a lot. And so those are some of the ones that I really like to call out that there might be something else happening. And lets just think before we make those initial judgments,

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

I really appreciate that you call that out - or like called it in. Because even like, as a pet owner, myself, I love animals, when I see a pet is malnourished, or they seem to be very timid or fearful, I make the assumption that it's the person who's caring for them, and that they're a bad pet parent. And I'm like, oh, we need to make sure this pets, okay. But I really appreciate that step back and say, maybe it's not like there might be something else going on, they might be at that pet. And maybe the specific person isn't the one that's causing that pet harm. So I really appreciate you calling attention to that.

Katie Campbell:

Thank you. And I and I absolutely love that that language of calling in, you know, I think this is a great opportunity for us to call people into that into the into the conversation as a whole. And, you know, just absolutely, I think pets are really, really special to us, and we want to care for them. And so it's just a great piece of knowledge to just kind of have in the back of our pockets. And, you know, I would also just say that the pets can have PTSD as well. And so you know, if pets are exhibiting some behaviors that are a little bit challenging, again, it might not be because they're a bad pet, but that they've had some trauma too. And so we need to provide some of that trauma informed care for our pets as well.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Definitely. And you mentioned that 76% of owners notice changes in their pets, do you mind sharing a bit more about what type of behaviors pets may exhibit that show that they've experienced some type of trauma or abuse?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, and you know, some of it actually looks kind of similar to what humans might exhibit. And we experience PTSD for very generally speaking, you know, every pet is an individual just like every human and so their responses are going to look different from pet to pet. But it could be you know, as simple as barking, excessive barking, you know, it could be urinating in places that they haven't urinated before. And so a pet that may be housebroken because of PTSD, or simply because they're coming into a new environment may start urinating inside, you know, they may exhibit exhibit some hyper vigilance. And so anytime they see another human, they may start barking, they may put their ears back, they may have Whale Eye. So lots of lots of different ways that pets exhibit, you know, these kinds of behaviors and PTSD, especially with cats. I think they're kind of an easy one to think about in this, you know, they're gonna hide a lot. And that's kind of their go to is they just want to go away and they want to hide and they want to find a safe place.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

I definitely resonate with that. We have a little 10 year old kitty named Nala. We adopted her two years ago. She's amazing. But yeah, it's taken her that two year time period to really feel comfortable and really like, feel like okay, this is home, and I'm safe. And I'm not going to be harmed here. But yeah, she's definitely still very skittish with things. She's a little more brave, but she also hides so that a lot of that resonates even with my experience with my littles.

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, you know, the change is hard. You know, so it can take our furry, four legged, non furry feathered companions a little bit longer to adjust sometimes.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Yeah. And do you mind touching a little bit, you mentioned that there can be trauma informed care for pets? What are some things maybe your organization done? Or like things you can even share with listeners? Maybe they have a pet who's experienced trauma? What are some trauma informed techniques or things they could use to support pets who have experienced trauma?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, Red Rover, and you know, with our collaborative project, Don't Forget the Pets were really kind of, we don't provide direct service. And so really, what we do is provide the coaching to organizations to help them figure out what their programs are going to look like. And so, for us what this means, you know, with regard to your question, Racheal, is that we will coach and we really encourage and strongly encourage that human services organizations, specifically domestic violence shelters for this conversation, partner with an animal services organization. And so in those instances, hopefully, the Animal Services organization can provide, you know, some some great, positive reinforcement training for the pet and really just provide that training and support to maybe resocialize a pet, retrain them, get them ready and adjusted to meeting people again, a lot of our work also is about how do we create physical space that feels good for pets, especially when we're thinking about creating on site housing at domestic violence shelters. And so for cats that does mean giving them a safe place to hide. They also really like getting up high and so you know, creating shelves and things things above windows so that they can get that stimulation and looking outside that window. But also being able to be high, and kind of away from away from the humans is really, really helpful. And we also just help organizations create comforting, safe places for animals. And so that may mean putting in a couch that's easy to clean, but also really accessible, you know, for a dog to just hang out with their pet parent their, you know, with a TV, so they can just kind of sit back and watch a movie together. You know, it can also mean, you know, suggesting to domestic violence organizations, you know, these are great places, if you're thinking about a floor plan and domestic violence shelter, let's put these pet friendly rooms may be away from the kitchen, or away from the front door, where there's going to be constant traffic, here are some noise machines that are really helpful if honestly, it's it's not really hard stuff, it's just kind of thinking through, you know, placement thinking through materials. And absolutely having those relationships with those animal services organizations, when you do need to bring in, you know, that positive reinforcement training, and you know, like crate training. And I will also mention that, that training piece is really, really helpful and key when we think about getting pet parents and their pets into long term housing. Because all that kind of training stuff, we can throw that on a pet resume, and that's going to help pet parents in the long run.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Definitely. While I was doing research for this topic, I came across an article that I wanted to bring up with you to hear your thoughts or you know, any experience you've had with this. So I was reading an article and the quote from this article that I found interesting was neighbors are often more likely to report suspected animal abuse than domestic violence, making local humane societies and other animal protection professionals the first of social services, contact for many families in crisis. And that brings me back to that conversation we had earlier about not making assumptions about pets and their pet owners, but taking a step back and really trying to get a better analysis or thinking through other scenarios. But is do you work with like local animal protection agencies and professionals. And what are some flags maybe that they've mentioned, that maybe have been mentioned already, that there may be an indicator of violence within that pets home?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, you know, this, this article is spot on from from other pieces that I've heard that absolutely, folks are more likely to report animal abuse, then then human abuse. You know, there are many different signs of animal abuse, you know, it could be neglect. And so again, not providing appropriate shelter, not providing water, not providing food, to of course, you know, some of the easier things maybe for us to imagine in terms of like physical abuse of a pet. And so, you know, we are definitely always talking to Animal Services, organizations, humane law enforcement, about the importance of when they do receive these calls. Also be aware that maybe animal violence might also be happening in the home. And so part of what we really, really encourage is that these different sectors really talk to each other, you know, so that Animal Services is really talking to human services, and they're able to provide holistic support. There was a really, really interesting awareness campaign a few years ago, and I can't remember where it took place, I want to say, Ohio, but I could be very wrong about that. But a community actually trained all of their postal service workers on how to recognize animal abuse or animal violence. And they train them on how to report that. And so you know, if you think about postal service workers, like they're the folks who were visiting most homes in a community six days a week. And so they knew what to recognize, they knew how to report it. And then more importantly, again, Animal Services was talking to human services. And so when Animal Services went to respond, they knew what to ask for, they knew what to notice. And then they knew how to bring in that support for things like human violence, domestic violence. And so I think it's a really, really great way for us to support communities. Oftentimes, they're supporting the exact same population of people and pets. And so how can we get more folks talking to each other is really important.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Yeah, that is such a cool program. I wonder if there's more like that around the country. I'd love to look into that on my own. That's really interesting.

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, yeah. If I can remember what it is, I will definitely let you know do. Awesome.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Thank you. So let's say a survivor is ready to leave their abusive home, and they're looking for domestic violence shelters where they and their pet can move into as they figure out their next steps. What options do they have? I know when I was looking into this, um it said only about maybe 250 shelters in the United States were pet friendly, and a lot of these shelters that they didn't have any specific space for pets they would foster pets out and do like arrangements for that. Can you speak a little more out why there is so little availability for pets to enter into domestic violence shelters, I know you shared like layouts can be challenging anything else that would be important for us to know.

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, first of all, I'll call out a couple of resources for survivors looking, looking for that kind of programming. So the first one is DomesticShelters.org. So we actually have a data sharing partnership with them. And so currently 18.65% of shelters in the US are pet friendly. And so that just means that survivor and pet stay at the same location at the domestic violence shelter. So folks can go to domesticshelters.org. And then they can search by I believe, is by state, maybe even zip code, resources, all domestic violence resources in that area. And then they can filter out for on site and offsite pet housing resources. So that's a really great resource. The animal welfare Institute also operates something called the safe havens mapping project. And so that is basically a directory of all of the housing programs. So those that include both on site and offsite housing options for pet programs. And then finally, if folks do reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, they can get resources there. And when they say that they have a pet, and they need pet resources, they can get some information from the National Domestic Violence Hotline as well. So there's a few different great resources for folks to find that pet housing program. And then to touch on your your other point, you know, why are there so few? And you know, there, there are definitely legitimate reasons and, you know, legitimate barriers for domestic violence organizations and creating this programming. We actually ask organizations all the time, what these barriers are, and so I can tell you pretty confidently, that the top barriers are space, they are funding to start or maintain their programming, concerns around liability and insurance, fear of animals, you know, some folks are going to come in, and they are going to have a real fear of animals, it can be concerned around who's actually going to take care of the animals, you know, is that going to fall on staff? Is it going to fall on pet parents, you know, so I think lots of really great legitimate barriers and concerns. I also feel really, really confident in saying that we can help folks overcome all of those barriers and all of those challenges. Through our Don't Forget the Pets Project and we offer free training workshops in person and virtually. We also offer a free coaching program. And so that's kind of, you know, really just one on one support to help organizations through that process of creating it. Because in the end, it's going to remove a barrier for survivors to seek safety. And it's also this amazing tool and benefit for that healing process. And it's also going to help that domestic violence organization make some money, people like donating to animal causes. And so it ended up being a real benefit in the long run.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

That's awesome. And have you noticed or are you aware, like with certain shelters, are there any breed restrictions that you see most often with folks who do accept pets, but just not certain breeds or types of pets?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, unfortunately, this is an issue. You know, we do know that certain communities have breed specific legislation, that that is a really big challenge. We know that it is based in racism, you know, when when it comes to these breed specific legislation, type things. We also know that it does - insurance providers may also have specific breed restrictions. You know, this is something that we have not specifically done work on. But it is absolutely something that we are committed to learning what the landscape is learning what resources are available, and then supporting the organizations that we're working with and overcoming this. You know, there's a lot of great work that I think My dog is my home has taken on. My Pitbull is Family, the Michelson Foundation, and their pet Inclusive Housing initiative is also taking on. So there's a lot of great resources, and we're going to be really committed to helping our organizations over overcome these challenges.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Awesome. And for domestic violence shelters where they say you can't have your pet here, but you can go through this foster program and they can keep this pet for you. Generally, it's probably different depending on the location and the program. But generally, could you talk a bit about like how long folks are able to have their pets in foster care? Is there the risk of losing their pet through adoption if it's too long that they're not able to get their pet back?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah. And this question, as you, as you mentioned, really does kind of depend on the individual program and how they've set up the parameters. You know, anytime we are working with an organization setting up a foster program, you know, we really tell them ahead of time, you need to be in it for the long haul, you know, folks may be in a domestic violence shelter for 60, 90, 120 days. And so you really do encourage them to set foster families up for that, you know, to know that it's going to be, it's going to be a long time. And that is generally what we hear it can be any anywhere from, like, 45, to like 90, 120 days, that pets are in foster, you know, as to your question about our, you know, do folks potentially run the risk of losing their pet for for adoption. And again, I would say that really just kind of depends on on the individual parameters of, you know, a program and how it's been set up, we really do encourage organizations to remove as many barriers as possible. And so, you know, that just means that you need to be in it for the long haul. And, you know, let's not kind of have that be kind of a penalty for folks that, hey, if you're in it for this long, you're going to lose your pet. Most folks, I would say most survivors who do come into a pet housing program like this, they they love their pet, and they want to stay with their pet. And they're going to do absolutely anything and everything that they can do to keep their pet with them, and move on to whatever that next housing stages for them. And so we really encourage foster programs to set our pet parents up for success with that.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Definitely. And then this is getting a bit on the legal side. So I get if you can't answer like because, you know, you're not an attorney, but just curious to see some knowledge you might have around this piece. Are there any laws that protect survivors and their pets when they leave an abusive household? I know sometimes when I used to do legal advocacy and civil court, so not fun fact, maybe Fun fact, for listeners, but pets are considered property. So even though we view them as our babies, they are considered as property in the legal system. So is there any protections for survivors who they want to keep their pet but have concerns like you mentioned earlier, maybe the abuser has the adoption paperwork, and all the things that is like, well, this is actually my pet, you have, you're not legally allowed to have them any laws that can protect survivors who might be facing something like that?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, and I am definitely not a legal expert. But I will say that, depending on your local jurisdiction, there may be temporary restraining orders that you can include pets on and protection orders that you can include pets on. And so I would absolutely ask about that. And, you know, if you're, if you're survivor, or if you're from an organization, you know, find out what local opportunities, you have to add those pets to protection orders. I believe the National LINC Coalition does have a article and a map to show where protection orders for pets are available across the country. So that's a really, really great resource to check out. And I would just say generally speaking, you know, one of the things that we really, really encourage organizations to set up when when creating their pet housing programs, is that when a pet comes in to the program, give them to the veterinary office ASAP, or get that initial vet exam done as soon as possible. One, of course to make sure that the pet is healthy, but to also set up the care of the animal and the survivors name as soon as possible. So kind of creating that paper trail for that pet. And that's a really, really important piece to it, you know, we are hearing from more and more locations that when it comes down to who actually owns the pet, you know, custody, if that ends up coming up, that a lot of times, courts are looking at who is providing care for the pet, more so than whose name maybe on like that original, like ownership or, you know, adoption paperwork. And so I would definitely encourage, like, let's get that vet exam done. And let's start showing like who is actually taking care and providing that care for their pet. I think that can go a long way. Certainly, you know, not an end all be all, but I think it's a good step in that direction.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

So that's really helpful.

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, and you know, also making sure that the microchip is moved over to the survivors name if that's, you know, needed. I think these these little pieces kind of all work together. To help the survivor, the pet parent in the long run.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Yeah. And you mentioned a lot of really great resources and places for folks can go to learn more about this topic. Do you have any other recommendations for folks who are really motivated, they want to learn more about this? Or maybe they want to do what you do, anything else you recommend for folks?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, I invite everybody to do what I do. You know, I think it's, it's a great, it's really fulfilling work. But I also think this idea and this work to keep people and pets together is also just a growing field, I would say, within, you know, both human services in Animal Services, you know, both have both sectors have really, I think, started to come to this idea that we can't support one without supporting the other. And so I think it's a really exciting growing part of this field, I would also really encourage, folks, if you want to learn more about how to create these pet friendly spaces at domestic violence shelters, please visit 25by2025.org. So I mentioned a little bit earlier that we are about 18.65% of domestic violence shelters in the US that are pet friendly. And we actually launched a campaign earlier this year, to help make sure that 25% of shelters are pet friendly by 2025. And and so folks can go and learn more from the website, you can download the toolkit, you can get a badge, you'll get sample language, you know, share it on social media, you know, there are so many, I think, potential supporters and you know, folks just like you and me that don't know about this link between human and animal violence. But there are also so many survivors who don't even know that pet housing programs exist. So that pals report also said that 72% of survivors who were calling in, had no idea that pet housing was even in thing. And so you have 97%, who say, my pet factors into the decision of whether or not I'm going to leave, while 72% Also don't even know that a program exists. And so I think one of the most important things that that folks can do is just raise awareness and help spread the word about this kind of programming. So I would really invite folks to join us in that 25 by 2025 movement.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Awesome. It sounds like you're close. That's so exciting.

Katie Campbell:

We're getting there. We're getting there.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

And how else can our listeners support Red Rover? So I heard through volunteering through you - you all do you all take donations? Are there donations, y'all need for certain programs?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, we would love to have more folks join us as a volunteer. Absolutely. You know, I think that is one of the most exciting and one of the most personally beneficial ways that that folks can can kind of join this and do I think really great work for people and pets. And yes, absolutely, we do take donations, those are always greatly appreciated. So folks can visit redrover.org. In the top right hand side, you'll see a little donate button. And it'll tell you all the different ways that you can donate from a one time donation to becoming a monthly donor, you know, to even supporting as an on call Angel by helping specific veterinary cases and sometimes even specific safe escape domestic violence boarding cases. So lots of different ways for folks to donate to Red Rover.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Awesome. And is there anything else you'd like to share today that maybe we didn't touch on, that you think would be really important for folks to step away from this podcast and know?

Katie Campbell:

Um, I don't I don't think anything new new to share. Just, you know, another call, I think to just have the conversation about domestic violence and pets, domestic violence is not a topic that that we want to talk about, you know, we don't, we don't like talking about it and I think folks outside of domestic violence. And, you know, it's really hard for them to understand the dynamics of domestic violence and the challenges to finding safety if you're a domestic violence survivor. So it's really hard for folks to understand, but what folks do understand is that human animal bond, they understand the love of pets. And so, you know, I think this is a really unique way to talk about and to remove some of that judgment around domestic violence. And so I would just encourage folks to raise awareness about it for that reason, and again, you know, just to make sure survivors know that there are resources available.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Awesome. And before we close out today, if you feel okay with doing this, I would love to ask you because I see all these beautiful portraits behind you. Sorry, y'all, y'all can't see it, but I can. Do you want to talk a bit about any of the pets you have any fond memories you have of them?

Katie Campbell:

Yeah, sure. So yeah, Racheal, I do have a few pets. So I currently have two Husky mixes, and three cats. So we're a blended human family so my stepdaughter lives with us and so I have to to have her cat with us. us and then we also have a little nine pound Yorkie mix and so we are we're definitely full up with with our pets here. I am allergic to all of them. But you know, it's great. That is also one of the other barriers that I don't think I mentioned earlier. It's allergies right?

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Yeah.

Katie Campbell:

I you know, I come from, you know, the personal experience of Yeah, allergies are not fun, but we can help folks overcome that challenge as well. So they are - my pets are Charlotte, HarlowJean Grey, Chewy is the little Yorkie and then the cats are Oliver, Leo, and Milo. And they they are a super fun group to have. And I have to say a funny, funny memory from a while ago is actually with my husky who is no longer with us. She crossed over the rainbow bridge. When I first adopted her, she was about four years old. She had spent most of her life outside in a backyard. And so she didn't really understand that I was bringing her inside a home. And she had a real challenge with that good change sometimes hard. I came home one day and she had literally eaten through half of my couch like,

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Oh my gosh!

Katie Campbell:

yeah, like, split it down the middle, I could see the inside of the couch, and she just had the best day of her life. She had so much fun that day. She also tore through my office destroyed a whole bunch of paperwork, including her own AKC paperwork. Like I didn't care about it, but it came with her when I adopted her. And I think that was just her way of saying I don't need paperwork to say that I am this amazing, lovable creature. It's funny now, it was maybe not super, super funny in the moment. But she taught me a lot about patience and humility. And you know, just about, you know, being in the moment she is - she was and still is my my soul dog. That was Cheyenne. I love that. I also love that like you shared you learn something from that because I know with Nala, the one I mentioned earlier, when we first adopted her, she kind of just had some trauma and was like, why are people in my space. And I was used to cats who are like, I could be in their face, and they don't care. So she really taught me about boundaries and like being better with her body language and like something I very much appreciate about her like I do respect cats body language much more and like their boundaries. So yeah, I love that pets can teach us things too. I don't think a lot of folks think about that. Yeah, yeah. You know, I feel like cats are very good with boundaries. Maybe, maybe more so and very generalized statement. But you know, I think sometimes more so than dogs. And it's definitely a great reminder for me to respect boundaries. Like I love it.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Definitely. Katie, you were so informative today. Thank you so much for all your knowledge that you shared and just for taking time out of your busy schedule to do this podcast with me today. I really appreciate it.

Katie Campbell:

Oh, racheal, it's my pleasure. And I know it was a ton of information. But I'm absolutely here to chat with folks, you know, who want to learn more, who have questions. You know, that's what I'm here for. And so super down to continue the conversation.

Racheal Reed-Maloney:

Awesome. Thank you so much. Listeners, if something you heard today brought up something for you and you need immediate support. Remember the Phoenix Center is here for you. You can contact our 24/7 helpline number at 303-556-2255 My name is Rachel Reed-Maloney and thank you all for listening. I look forward to learning with you next time.