Natural Disasters and IVP

This past month has seemed like one natural disaster after another. From Hurricane Fiona, Hurricane Ian, and the earthquake in Mexico, our globe is seeing the very real impacts of climate change.

When folks hear about a natural disaster, their thoughts may go to property damage caused by a disaster and folks losing their homes. Folks generally do not think about how interpersonal violence spikes during, and after, natural disasters.

Join Racheal Reed (she/her) and the director of the PCA, Katherine Miller (she/her), as they talk about statistics behind women and children’s experiences with interpersonal violence during and post-disaster, risk factors that increases folks’ vulnerability to  experiencing interpersonal violence during natural disasters, and what policy makers can do to help mitigate these experiences from happening.

Below is a list of grass-root and non-profit organizations you can donate too that directly support folks post-disaster.

General
Direct Relief https://www.directrelief.org/
Mutual Aid Disaster Relief https://mutualaiddisasterrelief.org

Puerto Rico
Brigada Solidaria del Oeste (BSO) @brigadasolidariadeloeste on Instagram
DIASPORAXPUERTORICO https://www.diasporaxpuertorico.org/en/index.php
Taller Salud https://www.english.tallersalud.com 

Florida
Caring for Others: https://caring4others.org 

Citations

Parkinson, D. (2019). Investigating the increase in domestic violence post disaster: An                                         

        Australian case study. Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 34(11), 2333–2362. https:/doi-org.aurarialibrary.idm.oclc.org/10.1177/0886260517696876

Smitha, R. (2020) A natural disaster and intimate partner violence: Evidence over time,Social Science & Medicine, Volume 247, 112804, ISSN 0277-9536, https://doi.org                     

        10.1016/j.socscimed.2020.112804.

Thurston AM, Stöckl H, Ranganathan M. (2021) Natural hazards, disasters and violence against women and girls: a global mixed-methods systematic review. BMJ Global Health; 6:e004377.

If you are in crisis and need immediate support, please call our 24/7 interpersonal violence helpline at 303-556-2255.

Request an Appointment with an Advocate at
https://www.thepca.org/online-appointment-request

Request a Violence Prevention Presentation at
https://www.thepca.org/prevention-education

Instagram @phoenixauraria

Transcript

Natural Disasters

Tue, Oct 25, 2022 4:02PM • 36:54

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

folks, people, happening, natural disasters, increased, disaster, experiences, reported, tents, women, shelters, interpersonal violence, violence, podcast, hurricane, literally, occurring, katherine, home, resources

SPEAKERS

Racheal Reed-Maloney, Katherine Miller

Racheal Reed-Maloney  00:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Phoenix cast I'm your host today, Racheal Reed. And I'm sitting here with someone you may remember from previous podcast episodes, Katherine Miller. In case folks listening aren't aware Katherine who was previously Advocacy Services Program Manager is now the director at the Phoenix Center. So y'all can't see me, but I'm clapping, I'm excited, very happy she's the director now. 

Katherine Miller  00:39

Thanks, Racheal. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  00:40

She's been amazing and staying busy. So Katherine, I'll let you take it away to introduce yourself to everyone and say, hi. 

Katherine Miller  00:47

Hey, everyone. Great to be back. I haven't done a podcast in a little bit, because things have been a little busy around here. But I'm excited to be back. I am the director now. So we're doing a lot of really fun stuff here. Excited to have Racheal onboard as well. She's been doing a great job, I hope you're enjoying some of the prevention education and programming that you're seeing on campus. But a big reason that Racheal wanted me to be on this podcast episode in particular is because I have a master's degree in International Disaster Psychology, which is, you know, technically just a fancy term for trauma psychology. But what I've done a lot in my education is really focus on the ways that disaster scenarios, whether that be a natural disaster, or a social disaster, really impact people's lives based on a variety of factors, identity, mental health and trauma, a whole bunch of things. We were talking about the recent disasters that have been occurring, and how that's related to IPV. And then we just decided, Hey, we should do a podcast about it. So here we are. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  01:46

Yeah, so as Katherine mentioned, bringing her expertise into this space today, because with all the natural disasters that have been happening in the world, I wanted to get her perspective about how those natural disasters are impacting folks' experiences with interpersonal violence, specifically women and children. So in case you aren't aware, haven't heard about this recently in the news, there has been a lot going on on our planet. On September 13, Puerto Rico was hit by Hurricane Fiona. And as a quick reminder, they still been trying to recover from Hurricane Maria that was about was that two years ago, Katherine, 

Katherine Miller  02:20

I think it was 2018. But I could be wrong. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  02:23

Yeah. So still recent enough that they're still trying to recover from that previous hurricane. And once again, they've been hit by another one. And then on September 28, so just last week, hurricane in hit Florida and Cuba. And then about two weeks ago, September 19. What 7.1 magnitude earthquake hit Mexico City. So generally, when we're thinking about natural disasters, and when they happen in the world, our immediate thought goes to Oh, no, there's going to be a lot of destruction, people are losing their homes, we're not thinking about how other people in the same community may be causing harm to folks that are also being impacted by those disasters. So we felt it was important to talk about today, just to stress the importance of how survivors can be further victimized when natural disasters occur. And before we move forward with our conversation, I want to quickly define natural disaster for everyone. So we're all coming from the same foundation of what we're talking about when we're talking about natural disasters. And natural disasters are defined as a natural event such as flooding, earthquake, fire, or hurricane that causes great damage or loss of life. And as I was doing my own research on this topic, because I'm not very familiar with this, and honestly, because I'm from Colorado, I have a lot of privilege where I haven't had to experience this and prepare for these events myself. I was reviewing studies that bound violence against women and children increased during and post disaster. These experiences were either new experiences for women and children, or these experiences were increased. So for example, if folks were experiencing emotional verbal violence before disaster, once a disaster hits that may increase whether that emotional and verbal violence is happening more frequently or escalates into physical and other forms of violence.  And before we get talking more with Katherine and her expertise on this topic, just wanted to talk about a couple of statistics regarding natural disasters. So natural disasters affect about 200 million people on our planet each year after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Folks reported fourfold, so four times or higher, more experiences with interpersonal violence than before Katrina hit. Two months after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in Louisiana in 2010, the National helpline calls for that area where the oil spill occurred increased by 20%. During the weekend of the Canterbury Earthquake in New Zealand in 2010, law enforcement reported a 23% increase in domestic violence related calls. And lastly, after the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004.Physical violence against Indian women increased by 61%. and sexual violence increased by 232%.  Katherine, as someone who's not looked into this topic, but as I mentioned earlier, seeing these statistics were baffling to me, this is gonna sound like a loaded question. But why does violence against women and children increase at such high rates after a natural disaster? 

Katherine Miller  05:23

It is a loaded question, but a really good one. And I will say that your experience of finding this baffling or maybe even being surprised, that you haven't heard of these things before, is actually something I hear all the time, right. So when I talk about what I do, or what I've learned, or the things that I teach in my class, you know, students, other staff members, folks that engage within the community, also pretty frequently say, like, I either never thought of that before. I've never even heard of some of these things before, or they've heard of like, very specific things. Right. And I'll talk about some of the ones that I think people have heard more commonly and just a little bit, but the question is, why, right, like, so why are these forms of violence increasing during times of natural disaster? And like, I think, understandably, natural disasters, cause layers of vulnerability for folks, right? There's a lot of things going on during this time, right? So we're talking about the potential for either increased or new housing insecurity for folks, people who are already maybe living at the poverty line or below the poverty line are experiencing even greater distress, because they don't have access to things that you normally would, we're seeing people being displaced at incredible rates, you know, 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of people that usually when these Disasters are happening, are being displaced, meaning they have nowhere to go,  Frequently, in those situations, particularly outside of the United States, what we're seeing happen is folks are being like put in tents outside out like outside of the disaster area, that's pretty in the United States, hotels after a disaster can only go so far, there's only so much money to pay for those kinds of things people do try and relocate prior to like something like a hurricane happening where like you do actually have warning that this thing is going to happen. Whereas, like, with an earthquake or something like that, there isn't really, you know, a predictor like that this is going to happen right now. So that's why we tend to see higher death rates in those situations, because there's, there's not a lot that you can do in the moment just happens with hope that infrastructure kind of gonna protect you. And sometimes that's not true, right? We see a lot of people get crushed by buildings and those kinds of things, which is really sad and unfortunate. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  06:44

Yeah Yeah

Katherine Miller  07:28

We're just seeing like, a lot of increased vulnerability because of some of those identity factors increased lack of access to resources, right. So when we think of like, how much destruction can occur, roads can be destroyed. people's homes are like, washed away or crumble in some way. If there's flooding. I mean, I'm sure you know, if folks had been following this in the news, and you've been seeing this, particularly with Hurricane Ian, I mean, people can't drive their cars because they're they're literally underwater, right? 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  07:56

Yeah. So high. 

Katherine Miller  07:57

So high. You see people going from home to home in some a boat of some kind, right. That's literally how like rescues are occurring. Right now. There's not really safe ways for people to to flee a situation looks very different than what we talk about in a non disaster scenario with folks where we can talk about different forms of resources, like different times to leave, right. And those I mean, you're stuck. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  08:23

Yeah

Katherine Miller  08:23

When disaster is happening, particularly when we're talking about hurricanes, like you're stuck in a place that you are right and shelter in place. And so if violence is occurring in the home, already, it's going to increase because of that close proximity, right? So the proximity and then being stuck at home is going to be a huge risk factor. In the same way, you know, that we saw at the height of the pandemic. Yeah, with stay at home orders, right. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  08:47

That's a great point. 

Katherine Miller  08:48

Yeah. So like, very similar parallels there, right? Like that proximity and constant proximity, and not not really having access to go other places or reason to go somewhere else creates huge risk and vulnerability for folks. And it also just mirrors, you know, natural disasters mirror cycles of power and control, right? Yeah. In a natural disaster, you are powerless. You don't have control over the things generally speaking, that are happening. And that's scary for a lot of people. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  09:17

Yeah, I can only imagine. 

Katherine Miller  09:19

And so when we're talking about potential, like violence that's already occurring, that is only going to exacerbate those circumstances, right. So, um, folks who are causing harm, or they're also experiencing increased levels of loss of control, which is a huge risk factor, right? So it's not just about them exerting control over somebody else, but how they also feel that they're in control over other factors of their lives. So particularly, and I'll say like, a lot of the things that I'm going to talk about, really fall within a gendered binary. So we talked about men and women, not because I'm saying folks have other identities or not experiencing these things, right. There's a huge gap in race like in research, right? 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  09:59

Yeah, something I noticed a lot of research was specifically focused on like women's experiences and like girls experiences, but I can't say I saw any particularly that focused on like LGBTQ folks, disabled folks, the elderly. And I know, you know, a lot about like the elderly folks and their vulnerabilities with that. 

Katherine Miller  10:15

Yeah. And, you know, when I was learning, like, some of those things were things I was surprised by as well, and potentially, because it's not published very much. And also similarly to you like, I have great privilege in terms of the identities that I hold, and how many of these things I have not had to experience or or think about because of my own lived experience. But I mean, even FEMA, and right now, I can't remember what that acronym stands for. I just know that I do things like the Federal Emergency something, something and you can look it up later. But they have published reports on disaster preparedness since 2012. And not until 2020. Do they ever have anything in there on LGBTQ folks. Wow. And that was only two years ago. Right? So like the research is, is truly lacking. And I think that we'll probably see some of those gaps being filled within the next decade or so, because of people noticing, like, hey, these things are a problem. We don't actually live within a binary. So we can't keep talking about things in a binary. But just for the purposes of this podcast, like a lot of the research that exists is based on the binary. So you will hear me saying those kinds of things. Well, I also want to acknowledge the women are not the only people who are experiencing these forms of violence, and men are not the only people who are perpetrating violence, right. So like, we know that anyone have any identity could experience or perpetrate violence. So like, we say that with caveats, right, there are there are nuances to the things that we talk about. But when we're talking about things more broadly, I have to go with this is what the research says right now. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  11:43

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  11:43

Right. So going back to that sense of loss of control, right. Yeah. So what we see happen quite frequently, particularly with men, and that we're talking about, like cis heteronormativity here as well, right?  Yes, definitely.  So we're talking about cisgender men who are in relationships with cisgender women are feeling more sense of loss of control over things like their job, or being able to provide and protect, which, you know, as we know, like going along those lines are pretty typical ideals. And I say that with air quotations, ideals of masculinity, to be the provider, the protector, right to be the strong one, like, these are the things that you do. And when you can't fulfill those roles anymore. It feels like a loss of control. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  12:23

Yeah

Katherine Miller  12:24

Right. And a lot of the times people, even if they had a job prior to a disaster, may not be able to go to work for a really long time. Even if things are opening back up to a place where they worked may have been destroyed, there may not literally be work for them to do. Yeah. And that like similarly again, till the start of the pandemic, that just creates a certain environment that makes people really, really vulnerable to violence. So those are some of the reasons why this is happening. I mean, we could go into like layers and layers and you know, the feminization of poverty and like, and all these things, but again, generally speaking, we have 30 minutes cast like, this could be a whole dissertation.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  13:01

Yeah. And just to tie back to what you were mentioning about like housing insecurity and economic insecurity, a lot of the things that I've found that you happen to mention were folks experiencing violence, by family members, maybe even friends, but actually in the shelters and the displacement camps, where folks are going for safety. Yeah, so that was very appalling to me. I was reading something about like, there are men who go into those spaces. And they'll have volunteer vest on offering jobs to folks who are living in like tents or just sleeping on the streets, because it's not safe for them to be in the shelter. And then they're being trafficked.  Yes

Katherine Miller  13:34

And being sexually assaulted. So that was just wild to read that that's happening in the middle or after someone going through a national disaster and losing everything. Yeah. Again, like very terrifying things to think about. And that was pretty prevalent. It was a highly publicized, you know, stories, I guess, highly publicized to me, because of what I already read. So I don't know how much other people saw these things. But particularly after the 2015 earthquake in Nepal, 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  14:00

Yeah 

Katherine Miller  14:00

Those were stories that were coming out a lot. And I'll say there's already a lot of human trafficking that's happening in Nepal and the surrounding areas, because of like, gender socialization, and a lot of other things. So like that was already a ripe environment for those kinds of things. And after the Nepal earthquake, it was so unsafe to stay in the buildings around Kathmandu that women and children were living in tents on the outskirts of the city, kind of like in open space, because there were so many aftershocks that people were I mean, people were genuinely terrified to like be near buildings, because they didn't know if it was going to happen again. So they moved to the outskirts in tents and folks with like, at the time, the humanitarian aid workers wore blue vests so that they were easily identifiable by folks in the community. And there are there were groups that essentially mimicked that got blue vests that either were the same or looked at least similar where it would be confusing enough for someone maybe not to know 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  14:57

Yeah  Yeah.

Katherine Miller  14:58

Or not to be able to make a distinction And, and they would go up to women and children in those tents, who like especially ones who had maybe lost the male provider of the family in the earthquake, like that person had died, or was working in the city. And would say, like, hey, like, we have jobs for you, we know that you need money. Like if you come with us, you can have a job. And when you're in that situation like and you know that you need money, and you need to protect your family, or you just lost a provider of your family like those. That's a priority, right? They're like, how are we going to take care of ourselves? Moving forward?   And so that sounds like a really wonderful deal. And then women and children were being taken across country lines from Nepal into India, and they were being trafficked there. Right. And what's also really hard about natural disasters is when people go missing, they are presumed dead. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  15:52

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  15:53

Right. So there's also a lot of opportunity there for, you know, folks who have more malicious intent to be like, Sure, we can go into these spaces, and we could literally remove people and take them somewhere else, for the purposes of being trafficked. And no one would know, right, they would just count them among the dead, and then no one's gonna come looking for them. And you know, the lives of women and children are not valued as much generally speaking, like, globally, that is true. But also, you know, in Nepal, in India, that is also true. And it is why women and children are trafficked very high numbers in those areas. So people weren't looking for those women and children, because they just assumed that they died. And nor were their lives nearly as important. That was like a huge risk and vulnerability.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  16:38

 Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  16:38

And outside of trafficking, like similar things were happening after the earthquake in Haiti in 2010. Were like, very, very commonly, I think the I mean, these pictures have been displayed everywhere. But folks were living in these blue tents, like, 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  16:50

Oh, yeah

Katherine Miller  16:51

What, like the Red Cross and FEMA and all of them came in and set up these, you know, tents that had like blue tarps over them are supposed to build makeshift homes. But somehow that turned into tents. So

Racheal Reed-Maloney  17:02

and you shared with me a little bit ago that like there are folks that are living in those tents. 

Katherine Miller  17:06

Still people living in those tents. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  17:07

That's like a decade later.

Katherine Miller  17:08

Yes. More than a decade later. Yeah. Still living in blue tents. And obviously, those things are incredibly unsafe.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  17:15

Yeah.

Katherine Miller  17:15

 Right. It's not like they're keeping anybody out. And so there were a lot of stories from women about people holding the tents so that they could watch people coming into the tents sexually assaulting women, and then leaving. And women feeling like they couldn't report it, because they like either needed some of these men to like, protect them in other ways, or they weren't being believed that these things were happening, or that wasn't even the top priority in the moment.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  17:40

Yeah, like when there's so much going on. And multiple fires, like metaphorically, it's like, what fire do I focus on first? And they'll focus on those other ones later. 

Katherine Miller  17:48

Yeah 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  17:49

How devastating is it that like, you have to focus on I lost my home, I need to protect my family. Oh, I was just sexually assaulted. But that's not a priority right now. That's just feels like Complex PTSD in the making.

Katherine Miller  18:00

Yep. And I'm like having to go places to get food and water, the aid workers and some of the the grassroots organizations that are had to start coming up with plans. And this is true in other refugee camps as well. We're usually like water, there's not like running water in these areas. And so they have go somewhere to get water, to wells, something like that. And frequently, women were going alone, and sometimes not returning at all or being assaulted. Because they were alone, just not an excuse. It was incredibly unsafe, the dynamics that were set up for these women in order for them to survive. And so now they're like, literally, like in preparedness writing. And there needs to be a structured plan of like, when to get these things. So like people should be going in groups, no one should ever go alone. Right? And it's very similar to language that I remember growing up with, right of like, don't go to the bathroom by yourself, don't walk down the street by yourself. Don't do all these things by yourself because you're unsafe, just in your being. Yeah. And that's, I mean, we shouldn't have to have those narratives for people, right? Especially like when you're when you're already displaced. Because you're in a refugee camp and every you're already insecure. That's not something you should have to worry about. Not at all, but they do. Yeah, and that's really sad, right? So there are just like all of these elements that are creating extreme risk and vulnerability. And we're not talking about these things a majority of the time, right, like those are usually the articles that are highly published. I know these things because I looked for them

Racheal Reed-Maloney  19:31

Right. Yeah. But like myself, this was my first exposure to a lot of this information. And it was really surprising. And even to speak to the piece where you're speaking about reporting. I was reading multiple articles and they were talking about how law enforcement isn't a viable resource when there's a national disaster. During some Australian bushfires can't remember the year specifically, but Australian women reported they would call law enforcement because they experienced like physical or sexual violence and law enforcement would be like, you really want me to focus on this right now when everything's on fire, or they say, Well calm down your boyfriend, your husband will calm down once things settle down, so even reporting to law enforcement, that's not an option if that's what someone wants to use, because their resources are tapped. They're not taking reports seriously.

Katherine Miller  20:16

Or like, even if that was their last resort, right? Like, I feel like I have no other options. And this is the thing, the only thing left. And that was also true in during Hurricane Katrina, because what happens during natural disasters is telecoms go out a lot of the time so that people are just getting a busy signal when they're trying to call or so many people are calling about so many things, that the line is overtaxed that people can't get through. Or if they can, they're getting that response. Right. We have other things that we have to respond to. And then when you get that kind of response, I mean, it's just going to shut you down. And like, you're not, you're not going to try again. Right. Or I also read stories it during Hurricane Katrina, and during Hurricane Maria, that even if people got through, they feel like there's no way we can get to you. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  20:43

 Yeah.  Yeah. And I am curious, its relationship Violence Awareness Month for folks that may not be aware of that we recently posted on Instagram about fatality and the statistics for that in Colorado, specifically in 2020. So Katherine, do you have any statistics or information about how domestic violence fatality is different? What pre versus post disaster?  Yeah 

Katherine Miller  20:57

Right, which is also just just devastating. And some of these people are legitimately at risk of being murdered. And there's nothing that they can do. There's no resource to reach out to, there is no last resort. Yeah, it's just I have to stay in this place. Or I go out into this rushing water and see what happens. Yeah. Which is, you know, pretty close to guaranteed death.  Yeah,so I mean, one of the key risk factors in fatality is a recent loss of control. In some ways, like that is a huge predictor. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  21:49

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  21:49

And so as we discussed, we're seeing that happen in just in disaster scenarios. And I haven't found like a ton of stuff about fatality and a lot of disasters. But I did look a little bit more into what has happened since Hurricane Maria like, particularly because they also just had hurricane Fiona. And the organizations that reported that fatality doubled in the year after,

Racheal Reed-Maloney  22:16

Wow

Katherine Miller  22:16

Hurricane Maria, which is really significant, right? Like, yeah, very, there's a correlation there. And something that can't be overlooked. And even in like, some of those grassroots organizations that were providing services for survivors, also noted that they were seeing a significant increase in the need for services during and in the immediate aftermath, like up to a year because of like a lot of those feelings of loss of control. And like the lack of reporting, right, and what sucks is that I mean, similarly to statistics that we have around these forms of violence in general, is that even if people were trying to report during these times they couldn't get through? Yeah, right, are weren't being taken seriously. And therefore, it was not documented appropriately. So what grassroots organizations tell us about how specifically women and children are experiencing violence during natural disasters does not match what law enforcement or some kind of government agency is recording. So from their perspective, it's going to look like there's not that much happening. And when you talk to people on the ground doing the work, they're like, oh, no, this is increasing significantly, right during this time, but then when the when those things don't match, like, what we often see is what is published by governments, which is going to show incredibly low numbers, because they're responding to other things, or they literally don't believe folks or like, it is being recorded, and they're not writing it down. Yeah, I mean, we see those things happen here, too. So like, theoretically, we shouldn't be surprised by these things. But it does change. You know, how we think about and how we talk about and, and how it is reported out to others, that these forms of violence are occurring in alarming rates during natural disasters.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  24:02

I think that goes to show to their focus on other things they perceive as more important than folks is experienced with violence, because maybe similar to like myself, like I couldn't imagine someone wanted to go harm another person after they potentially lost their home, their cities destroyed. So it sounds like that might be a blind spot that needs to be addressed in the future.

Katherine Miller  24:21

Yeah, absolutely. A huge, huge gap and thoughts around like, what emergency response could and should look like? Yeah, I mean, historically, the people who are doing this preparedness and thinking about emergency response, generally speaking, are also white cisgender men who are planning these things. And so, you know, women of varying identities, have not had a seat at these tables to say these are the things that women are experiencing during this time, right, LGBTQ folks, generally speaking, don't have a seat at these tables to say this is what we're experiencing at this time. Right? And because of that, there aren't good and plans of response in place when these things happen, because natural disasters are going to keep happening. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  25:05

Global warming. 

Katherine Miller  25:05

Yeah, like climate change is a real thing. And we are seeing a significant increase and how often these things are occurring. And it's only going to get worse. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  25:15

Yeah 

Katherine Miller  25:15

Right. So we're talking about loss of life, women and children are a lot more likely to die for a variety of reasons. Men are usually the ones who decide if a family gets to leave the home or not. I mean, women are traditionally the caregivers, right. So they have to take care of everyone in the family. So if you know, an older like matriarch doesn't want to leave, they're not going to leave either. Because they need to take care of this person that is, you know, their job and the job that they've been given by society by their family, right. So don't leave people behind. Women have to take care of the kids, while all of these things are happening, right and afterwards. So when we're talking about getting kids back into school, and doing all that kind of stuff, right? Traditionally, women are the people who are doing those things. They're tracking down their vaccination records, if they've had to relocate to make sure that they can get into the school. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  25:15

Yeah

Katherine Miller  25:15

At this point, because we have not treated our planet very well. And so those plans need to be consistently updated. But they also need to include the people who are being impacted the worst, definitely. Right. And so my hope is, is that we start seeing some of those changes be implemented, how fast some of those things will happen. I'm not really, really sure, yeah, but my hope is, I mean, that that's stuff that's publishing research over and over and over again, as well. So not just something that like folks on the ground are saying, which they are absolutely saying, Yeah, but research is saying, these people's voices need to be included in these preparations, because they are being impacted. And these are the people that are dying. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  26:40

Yeah

Katherine Miller  26:40

If their vaccination records were destroyed, which happened pretty frequently in Hurricane Katrina. And when folks had to be relocated to different parts of Texas, like kids couldn't get into school. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  26:49

Wow. 

Katherine Miller  26:50

And then there was a lot of stereotyping, particularly of black women to be like, well, they don't know how to take care of their kids. And like they're on welfare and like all of these kinds of things from other mothers and those schools when it was like, so this woman didn't decide to be in a natural disaster, right? She didn't personally lose these vaccination records. They were at the school, right? Or at the at the doctor's office that also got destroyed. Exactly. These things literally just don't exist, because nature destroyed them. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  27:19

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  27:19

And there's nothing that she could do about that.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  27:21

Yeah. What I'm hearing is a lot of policy changes, actually, listening to the folks have actually experienced that, especially in folks of color, women, LGBTQ folks, disabled folks, and actually getting their insight into how to better prepare for during, after five years after 10 years after disasters. 

Katherine Miller  27:21

Yeah. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  27:39

What else? Do you feel like what helped mitigate folk's experiences with interpersonal violence during and after a disaster?

Katherine Miller  27:45

I mean, I think even before disaster happens, like we just need increased funding to the areas that are already doing this work. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  27:51

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  27:52

So that there are still resources available, like what I'm finding, I mean, specifically from folks who work in Colorado, but I'd venture to guess that this is same across the United States, which is that all of these services are underfunded and understaffed. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  28:03

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  28:04

Right. So we're like overtax in terms of how many people need things, and how much time we have to fulfill set need. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  28:10

Yeah.

Katherine Miller  28:11

Right, or how much money we have to fulfill that need. Relocating people as expensive housing people is expensive. And so often, like, what ends up happening is that the only choice that folks have is to return to a violent situation. And that's a really hard choice for someone to make. We also know that when folks leave abusive situations, their risk of homicide increases at least five times. Yes. And so like, those are things that need to be planned for. Yeah, during this time, right. So in those policies, I think folks who are working in this field also need to be invited to those tables, right. So like, particularly like folks who are working during Katrina, folks who have been working during Hurricane Maria and Fiona folks who are working in Florida right now, right, the people who are working in Nepal, and who were working in Sri Lanka, during the tsunami, people who are working in Mexico City right now, what are they seeing?  Because sometimes it's like, well, what do we respond to if we don't know exactly what's happening? Right, and the people who hold those stories are the survivors themselves and the folks that they worked with directly at these agencies, right. And so including those voices within that policy to make that change is absolutely necessary. I mean, what really needs to happen is people just need to stop abusing and harming other people like that would be ideal Yeah. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  29:26

Long term goal 

Katherine Miller  29:27

Long term goal. I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately, but I think potentially also creating opportunities for for families to like to work and to make money during this time as well is also incredibly important. Right and having rescue strategies that are quit making sure that we have telecommunication that is effective, making sure that we have warning communication that is effective, making sure that you know, particularly like domestic violence shelters are listed on resources for shelters overall

Racheal Reed-Maloney  29:59

Yeah 

Katherine Miller  30:00

Right and finding ways maybe even to communicate that more covertly, I think there are a lot of things that probably need to change that maybe I don't even know, right? Because I haven't actually had to work in a disaster scenario where these things are happening. These are just things that I have read and stories that I have heard from people. And I'm not necessarily a policy person. So like, there's probably a person who can answer that question even more eloquently, and with more specific points. But I mean, I think first just hearing those stories, and then responding to those things directly will be key.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  30:30

Yeah. Before we conclude today, is there anything else you would like to add that you feel is important that folks on our podcast know about natural disasters and the intersection with interpersonal violence?

Katherine Miller  30:40

I mean, so much again, there were so many things, and I'm like, Hey, we could talk about so many things 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  30:44

For hours 

Katherine Miller  30:45

For hours. Yeah. And some of the things that I mentioned is, you know, like, elder abuse also increases. During this time, the way that disabled folks are treated is horrible and horrendous during this time in like during Hurricane Harvey and Houston. Also, during Hurricane Katrina, I won't be surprised if we hear similar stories from Ian as well, that like, folks in like retirement homes, or some kind of assisted living centers are just abandoned

Racheal Reed-Maloney  31:11

Oh, my goodness

Katherine Miller  31:13

And left to die. Because they can't or choose not to evacuate them to somewhere safe. Maybe folks who are in wheelchairs, like, are forced to be stuck in those wheelchairs with water up to their chest, they can't, they can't move the chair, right. And they actually ruin this wonderful piece of equipment that they have. And those things are really expensive. Some shelters in fact, probably a lot of shelters are not even built to be accessible to folks. So that's also a huge issue. We're not having particular, like sleeping arrangements that are going to be helpful, right, like I read one story, particularly from Hurricane Katrina, and that is the disaster that I've researched the most. So I do go back to that one quite frequently. But it was a woman who had a few disabilities, but she was in a wheelchair and literally would not be able in the shelter, they have cots. Right

Racheal Reed-Maloney  32:03

Right. 

Katherine Miller  32:03

And those are very low to the ground, extremely uncomfortable, right? Like not supportive in any way. And she could not sleep in it, because she wouldn't be able to couldn't straighten in a certain way to actually fit into it. So normally, that her own home, she would be able to get out of the chair and into a bed. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  32:21

Yeah

Katherine Miller  32:22

 Right and sleep. And she couldn't do that. So she had to be in the chair every single hour of the day. And she got like sores all over her body. And like all these things, because there wasn't enough ways to like to rotate her to make her comfortable. Folks often don't have access to medications during this time, right? Like there, there are a lot of things. And we could go down in a lot of paths, right? There often aren't shelters. For folks who don't identify as cisgender women. Yeah, that's also a big problem. Some ways to get resources are like very cis heteronormative. And so they they literally require or how they, how they deem a family. And what kind of families and resources is also pretty concrete in terms of if family is a man or a woman and children. Yeah, they're about that there are a lot of families that do not fit that descriptor, who would need the exact same resources. And so they're also being, you know, not included in the conversation. We also have a lot of folks, you know, from historically excluded groups who already don't feel safe, engaging in resources, when or reporting for that matter, when natural disasters aren't happening. So that feeling of mistrust and lack of safety is only going to increase during that time, right. So these also maybe times where folks from these communities are just not reaching out for resources at all. And just hoping that they survive. Because engaging with someone and having to like explain things about themselves, or put themselves at risk for harm from people who are supposed to help them is so great that they're like this is less scary than that. Right? Staying in my home and trying to survive this hurricane is less scary than that. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  33:59

And what does that say about our culture and folks of particular identities? Like I'd rather just sit here and hope I survive and reach out to folks because I'm so concerned about what's going to happen if I do that.

Katherine Miller  34:11

Not great things, because not great things. 

Racheal Reed-Maloney  34:12

Yeah. 

Katherine Miller  34:13

And I think is, you know, again, one of those reminders that like, even our disaster preparedness and response also upholds pillars of white supremacy, and says heteronormativity. And we really need to challenge those things. Because generally speaking, those are not the communities that are being impacted the most.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  34:30

Definitely. Well, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy day today to talk with us. I could talk to you for hours about this because you're so knowledgeable about this, and I've learned so much speaking with you. So thank you for taking the time to speak with our listeners today.

Katherine Miller  34:44

Of course it was it was wonderful. This is a really interesting topic for me to talk about. So I hope that people enjoy listening. I still have like 8 million things in my head where I'm like, Oh, we could talk about this, about this. So maybe we'll do a part two sometime in the future.

Racheal Reed-Maloney  34:56

Yeah, and if y'all aren't following us on our social media we currently Have our very active Instagram page @phoenixcenter. We update that Instagram with new podcast episodes regularly, so make sure to follow us to check that out. Also, subscribe to our podcast, the Phoenix cast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or Google podcasts. If you'd like to read more about some of the studies I referenced in this podcast today, check out the podcast description for the citations to those academic articles. Also fun fact Katherine offers a course through MSU Denver during the spring and summer semester called Gender and Disaster that talks even more in depth about the topics we talked about today. So if you're currently an MSU Denver student and want to learn more about these in a more structured fashion, in one of your classes, check out Catherine's class

Katherine Miller  35:46

Enroll!

Racheal Reed-Maloney  35:48

And lastly, if something you heard today reminded you of a personal experience you've had with interpersonal violence or a loved one's experience with interpersonal violence, please contact our 24/7 helpline number at 303-556-2255. The Phoenix Center is here to support you as you process your or your loved ones experiences with interpersonal violence. And we at the Phoenix center would like to extend our condolences to the Auraria campus students, faculty and staff members whose loved ones are being impacted by these recent disasters. If you'd like to make a donation to support folks, in post disaster effort, please review the podcast description for a list of grassroots and nonprofit organizations you can donate to. My name is Racheal Reed, and thank you for listening today. I look forward to learning with you next time.